Cast See Invisibility on others or not?

[bret]

Minor nit: Darkvision is a 2nd level spell.


I agree that See Invisibility is fine where it is. It doesn't have to be your first 2nd level spell, but by about 5-7th level you better have it to deal with the Invisible-Flying-Mage(TM) and other such problems. You are going to be expected to be able to handle invisible opponents by then.

By giving it to the Arcane Casters, you are forcing the party to work together. The Wizard spots it, while all the fighter types get to use their Blind Fighting feat to try and hit where the caster is pointing. This assumes the caster doesn't just Glitterdust the invisible opponent.

True Seeing is a lot better in many ways, which would explain why it is 6th level for the arcane casters rather than 2nd level.

One nice thing about See Invisible is it can be made permanent at 10th level. I always do this with my Wizards if I make it to that level.

 

[hong]

2) The way it's described it behaves like a detect spell, but if this is so, it is one of the few - if not the only - detect-like spells that is not called Detect (Blank).

Actually, as described, see invisibility does _not_ behave like a detect spell. If you look at the various detect X spells, you'll find that most of them operate on the principle of spending a number of rounds to gain successively more detailed information. Thus detect evil works as follows:
1st round: presence or absence of evil;
2nd round: number of evil auras and strength of strongest evil aura;
3rd round: strength and location of each aura.

Detect undead, detect secret doors, detect animals and plants, etc all work the same way. By contrast, see invisibility just reveals any invisible things within its area of effect.

 

[Gromm]

The Sages response:



Can see invisibility be cast on other people?

No.

The description lists no targets, but with a range it would seem to indicate it could be. On the other hand its description seems to lean towards just the caster (ie "you can see...", etc), with the range being the range at which it operates.

Correct.



So I guess the question is, is the range the effect range of "invisible seeing sight"

Yes.

or the range for a target of the spell with the effect range being as far as you can see?

No (the spell does not have a target).

If it can be cast on others, how about Detect Evil and the like? I'm more inclined towards no for these since the area is listed as coming from you.

The same principles apply.


Skip Williams

 

[hong]

The Sages response:

(snip)

Cool. This means I can put on my "the Sage agrees with me, therefore I'm right" hat, as opposed to my "the Sage disagrees with me, therefore he's wrong" hat.

 

[Shaele]

Just responding to the "this spell is woefully underpowered camp"... This is probably the only 2nd level spell that _every_ arcane caster I've seen has taken as soon as it's available (followed by Knock)

Heck, my sorcerer is planning on taking See Invisible _and_ Glitterdust so that he can do exactly what was described above - spot invisible creatures, and use Glitterdust to reveal them to the party.

Then again, our campaign has a flying-invisible NPC sorcerer who has nearly wiped out the party on a couple of occasions <g>

 

[Voadam]

In past editions it was also caster only and it was called detect invisibility.

I believe the name change is for the reasons Hong points out, It works right away while with the 3e detects you have to focus for rounds and get more information as you go.

 

[Darklone]

The way the spell reads literally doesn't seem to have much consistency or logic, however. My argument is with WoTC, not you or the DM.

First: Why do you write it here then ? We WILL answer.

For one thing, the range doesn't help in most situations because ...blablabla

Typical dwarf. Same sort of people who keep telling me darkvision is better than lowlight vision. Never have been peppered with arrows at night, have you? Cause the elves see you and your poor dwarf has only 60ft darkvision?

With Darkvision, just one spell level higher, you can grant others the ability to see in total darkness. One level lower, a spell that grants the ability to enhance vision in respect to one thing only - invisibility, which should be considerably (extremely) more rare than darkness in most worlds - apparently can only be cast on yourself. ... See Invisibility seems too weak compared to another vision-enhancing spell at 3rd level, Darkvision.

Darkvision lasts a lot longer. And it's definitely not better. Check that flying invisible guy who keeps out of range of the invis purge and casts summoned monsters who can charge you.

Also, compared to other 2nd level spells this seems fairly weak... As it reads See Invisible is only good when fighting an invisible foe and only helps the typically weakest fighter (not in my case, but typically) in the party - the wizard...

Typical. Nonsense. Ever thought about using Dancing lights to show your chachos where the enemy is? Still 50% miss chance (25% with blindfight) per DM ruling, but it rocks (no action to keep the dancing lights on the enemy!)

It's only good when fighting an invisible foe... Argh. It saves your life. It saves your items (invisible rogue who steals everything). You got a very nice DM it seems.

 

[Christian]

I took a quick glance down the list of Divination spells on the Wizard/Sorcerer list (they're handily grouped together on that list, unlike the other lists where I'd have to ferret them out). Here's the list of all of the Divination spells from that list that clearly can affect someone other than the caster. If you have time, take a moment to peruse the extensive list below:




Rary's Telepathic Bond

Foresight




Whew! Hope I didn't tire anyone out.

I think the default rule is that a Divination spell works only for the caster unless the spell description specifically states otherwise. But I don't see that rule under the general spellcasting section or under the Divination school description. Did anyone have more luck with that than I?

 

[Voadam]

True Seeing

Divination
Level: Clr 5, Drd 7, Knowledge 5, Sor/Wiz 6
Components: V, S, M
Casting Time: 1 action
Range: Touch
Target: Creature touched


you might want to double check your list Christian

 

[Voadam]

Edit: double post