Caster level in Grim Tales example

[John Q. Mayhem]

In the spellcasting example from Grim Tales, the fireball spell is used. a Smart Hero is trying to cast it without the Magical Adept talent. My question is, what would've happened had he succeeded? He didn't have a caster level, so would it have done 0d6 damage? And later, after he'd gotten the Adept feat, and he used it against the BBEG; it could only have been a couple d6s of damage maximum. Doesn't seem like enough to blast him to smithereens, as is described.

 

[HeapThaumaturgist]

Well, I'm sort of conflicted on how it's supposed to work, but I know you don't do 0d6.

I forget what Wulf/Ben (author) said but it's either the Level of the Spell or the level you'd normally need to BE to cast the spell.

I'm figuring level of the spell.

So until the caster had an effective 4th-level-caster he'd do 3d6 damage with his fireball.

Which, really, isn't enough to blow somebody to smithereens but WOULD be effective against massed troops in a game where magic is that rare.

It really reduces the over-effectiveness of casters. The fact that most all spells scale with level means that casters start out too-weak for their level and eventually become too-effective. That way the spell scales much much slower.

--fje

 

[Rodrigo Istalindir]

Spell effects determined by spell level or caster level, whichever is higher. For damage, duration, etc. Part 3 of the triple-whammy that keeps GT spellcasters well below their D&D equivalent in power.

 

[Wulf Ratbane]

Spell effects determined by spell level or caster level, whichever is higher. For damage, duration, etc. Part 3 of the triple-whammy that keeps GT spellcasters well below their D&D equivalent in power.

You say that like it's a bad thing.

 

[RangerWickett]

Wulf, I'd send you a private message about this, but you ain't receiving them.

I again marvel at the job you did with the Grim Tales magic system. I'm trying to retrofit the 'magic point' spell creation system of Elements of Magic into a skill-based system compatible with modern, and it is hard. The first playtest involved a PC going around charming, well, everyone, because he could. I think I made the DCs a little too low. It's hard to counter min-maxing while not making it impossible for casually-made characters to actually use the magic.

I know you're busy, but would you be interested in maybe chatting on instant messenger or in a chat room to help me out?

 

[Wulf Ratbane]

Wulf, I'd send you a private message about this, but you ain't receiving them.

What do you mean? Other folks have managed.

I again marvel at the job you did with the Grim Tales magic system. I'm trying to retrofit the 'magic point' spell creation system of Elements of Magic into a skill-based system compatible with modern, and it is hard. The first playtest involved a PC going around charming, well, everyone, because he could. I think I made the DCs a little too low. It's hard to counter min-maxing while not making it impossible for casually-made characters to actually use the magic.

I don't know if you are aware or not, but a skill-based system will be included in my next Grim Tales spellcasting supplement. (The irony of releasing a spellcasting supplement for a low magic game...)

I'd certainly welcome help/input at any point.

For comparison purposes, I don't think Black Company "got it" as well as "Psychic's Handbook" did. (Both GR products, FWTW.)

I know you're busy, but would you be interested in maybe chatting on instant messenger or in a chat room to help me out?

If it must be private, email is fine. Otherwise I'm agreeable to a discussion here (and you'll likely get as good or better help from the braintrust here as you would from me).

 

[HeapThaumaturgist]

Heh heh. I'd like to see what ya got.

Black Company is a little odd, I'll admit. I think it COULD work for something other than BC, but the more I work with it the more I realize that you'll need to do some fancy work.

About 5th-6th level, casters can get a little ... disgusting.

Yesterday the party's wizard totally changed the face of an encounter by memorizing an 11d8 25' radius frost burst in the morning. DC 60, I think. He had to expend two points of spell energy to pull it off, but pull it off he did. Darn near knocked him out, since the nonlethal drain definately exceeded his cap (knockout chance in my game) but he used an AP to help make the MDT save and had enough juice left over to toss down a 6d4 frostie.

Wasn't expected.

I'm waiting expectantly for the spellcasting supp, myself. I've got a few I've been using, but they don't fully mesh with D&D spells. Specifically, as I said, those that map with caster level for damage purposes. Unfortunately, I don't think keeping caster levels exceedingly low FIXES it too much because then all other spells have exceedingly low durations and the like, even further limiting the use of non-combat spells.

--fje

 

[Cheiromancer]

Spell effects determined by spell level or caster level, whichever is higher. For damage, duration, etc. Part 3 of the triple-whammy that keeps GT spellcasters well below their D&D equivalent in power.

I haven't play-tested it, but I was thinking that the spell-burn you take could add to your caster level. If your caster level is below the spell level, you would automatically take the burn to make up the difference.

So if the smart hero in the example took the minimum 3 points of spell burn, it would be a 3d6 fireball. If the dice roll said that he took 7 points, it would be a 7d6 fireball, and so on.

If an adept (caster level 2) cast the fireball, he would take an automatic 1 point of burn; the minimum needed to raise the caster level to 3 and make a 3d6 fireball. More burn could make it higher, of course.

Untrained casters could display greater spell effects than most adepts, but it would be at a severe cost.

 

[Rodrigo Istalindir]

You say that like it's a bad thing.

I think you know I don't think it's a bad thing. Au contraire. As a certain ex-felon would say, it's a good thing.

1. Spell failure chance
2. Spell burn
3. Caster level

Spell lists (honorable mention)

Most any level of magic cen be achieved by changing one of those. No swapping out whole systems, no extensive charts, etc. Between GT magic and the 'Fewer Dead Heroes' options, you can make darn near any game you want.

 

[John Q. Mayhem]

Just to make sure: caster level of a spell=spell level or caster's caster level, whichever's higher, right?