D&D 5E Casters should go back to being interruptable like they used to be.

[W'rkncacnter]

Because you can only take one action in a turn (baring something like Haste or Action Surge). That is the rules and it has nothing to do with the speed of the action.

...and you haven't thought for a second that maybe - MAYBE - the rules reflect, at least in some fashion, on what's happening in the game world? in a ROLEPLAYING GAME? i know about gamism, but this is just absurd.

As I said I can open a door once as an action. That doesn't mean I don't have enough time to open two doors and if I action surge so I can do it twice, it does not mean the doors fly open faster.

ignoring free object interactions for a moment (believe me, i WILL get to them), what the door does when you let go of it is a COMPLETELY SEPARATE THING from what we're discussing.

It does not imply it is making it faster at all. There is nothing to suggest it changes the speed of the action itself.

how does it not?

To use another example - as an action, I can pull a lever and the porticlous closes (from its own weight). If I take action surge so I can close one on the North and one on the South, the time it takes to close does not change based on the fact I used action surge and if I didn't use action surge I would only be able to close one of them.

once again ignoring free object interactions for a moment, the PORTCULLIS(es) CLOSING is NOT THE ACTION. that is the RESULT of the action. the ACTION is PULLING THE LEVER, because PULLING THE LEVER is the THING YOU ARE DOING.

like, what even is this example? how is it relevant to anything at all?

No they can't be. It takes an action to draw a dagger from its sheath, or to close a door, or to swing a Maul ..... or to draw a dagger from its sheath and throw it (if you make an attack with it), or to don a shield, or to tie off a rope ..... All of these things obviously don't take the same about of time but all of them DO take one action.

alright, here we go - everything i've bolded here can be done as a free object interaction. the free object interaction is basically a free Use an Object action you get every turn that lets you...Use an Object...without taking an action. the reason why it's possible to both "draw a dagger from its sheath" and "draw a dagger from its sheath and throw it" is because if you haven't used your free object interaction for the turn, you can use it and your action to do the latter. but if you HAVE used your free object interaction for the turn (such as by closing a door), you'd need to spend an action to Use an Object to unsheathe the dagger. this is an abstraction to reflect how you can do certain things as part of other things (for example, you can crash through a door or close it behind you while moving, or you can swing a sword in the same motion you use to remove it from its sheath).

also, once again, i'm not saying each action takes the same amount of time. i'm saying actions take similar amounts of time. these are not the same statement.

Also I will point out the Command spell is ONE WORD. So if all spells that cost an action take the same amount of time, this is a heck of a low floor.

ignoring that there could be other factors that could explain this (such as having to put a heavy emphasis on the word such that it significantly slows down the speaking of it), i can throw a punch in the same amount of time it takes me to say the word "Drop". i'm not a monk. this doesn't really mean anything to me.

also, you used that word again, "same". wrong word, buddy. it's "similar".

So from 5th level on, spells are slower than attacks. Not sure why you're focusing on a level that people spend maybe one session at.

i know you didn't ask me, but personally i'm doing it specifically to steelman his position. i am a merciful god.

 

[Lanefan]

except that's not related to the idea that taking two actions in one turn means each of (or even just one of, really) those actions are faster then normal. again, if they're not, why can't you always take two actions in a turn? the fact that you normally only get one and only special abilities can grant you another implies those abilities must be changing the nature of those actions in some way - such as by making at least one of them faster.

Or - and this would be my rationale - as the one "attack" represents your best attempt of possibly several during that round, getting a second one means you're now good enough (or, if hasted, just plain fast enough) to get two of those "best attempts" in the same span of time.

 

[W'rkncacnter]

Or - and this would be my rationale - as the one "attack" represents your best attempt of possibly several during that round, getting a second one means you're now good enough (or, if hasted, just plain fast enough) to get two of those "best attempts" in the same span of time.

this would be another way the nature of such an action could change, yeah - though it should be noted that this rationale only really works with attacks. it falls apart trying to explain just about anything else. however, it also raises the interesting point that if we accept this is how the attack action works, then it doesn't matter how quickly any given spell can be cast at all - dropping your defenses to put in the effort to cast even the quickest spell would immediately open you up to attack because the other guy is still attacking you.

 

[ezo]

I feel like it is worth considering that "something" additional must happening even on purely verbal spells like Command.

I know what you mean, but unfortunately we have no idea of what, if anything, might be that additional "something".

For instance, the spell is verbal only, but it might be:
"Wiko im dosso pela mete, GROVEL!"

So the first part could be the verbal component as well, with the "command" coming at the end. In such a case, it would probably take a few seconds to speak the entire spell as you cast it.

Ultimately, it is just a judgement call for each group

If not, then the setting would be rife with people unexpectedly prostrating themselves due to stray single word imperatives.

I don't think that follows necessarily. It depends entirely on your game world, etc.

And even then, with the current rules and sans a house-rule, wouldn't it be that way already?

 

[Lanefan]

It does not imply it is making it faster at all. There is nothing to suggest it changes the speed of the action itself.

Agreed; and your initiative tells us when in the round this action occurs.

No they can't be. It takes an action to draw a dagger from its sheath, or to close a door, or to swing a Maul ..... or to draw a dagger from its sheath and throw it (if you make an attack with it), or to don a shield, or to tie off a rope ..... All of these things obviously don't take the same about of time but all of them DO take one action.

This points to some IMO regrettable over-simplification of 5e timing.

The difference between "drawing a dagger from its sheath" and "drawing a dagger from its sheath and throwing it" is purely narrative, in that the former assumes you're not doing anything else with the dagger beyond just holding it at the ready, once you've got it in hand.

Properly donning a shield should probably take at least 2 rounds unless it's the Captain America style which realistically should slip off his arm all the time. And so on.

Also I will point out the Command spell is ONE WORD. So if all spells that cost an action take the same amount of time, this is a heck of a low floor.

Here you have a point, and again the culprit is over-simplified 5e timing.

Command, Counterspell, Featherfall, the various Power Word spells, and a very few other single-word spells should be instantaneous and, yes, almost uninterruptable because they are cast so quickly. Most spells should take somewhat longer to cast, with that "somewhat longer" being measurable in game time. The measurment unit - pips in the initiative sequence - is already in place, yet the designers refuse to use it.

Why, you ask? They claim it adds complication, which is IMO bogus given how complicated everything else already is. My take is it's another cave-in to whining wizard players who want their spells to go off a) uninterrupted and b) right now.

 

[Lanefan]

this would be another way the nature of such an action could change, yeah - though it should be noted that this rationale only really works with attacks. it falls apart trying to explain just about anything else. however, it also raises the interesting point that if we accept this is how the attack action works, then it doesn't matter how quickly any given spell can be cast at all - dropping your defenses to put in the effort to cast even the quickest spell would immediately open you up to attack because the other guy is still attacking you.

Exactly! This is what I've been saying all along (though I'd assumed the always-attacking piece and may not have overtly mentioned it).

 

[W'rkncacnter]

Exactly! This is what I've been saying all along (though I'd assumed the always-attacking piece and may not have overtly mentioned it).

 

[Gammadoodler]

I know what you mean, but unfortunately we have no idea of what, if anything, might be that additional "something".

For instance, the spell is verbal only, but it might be:
"Wiko im dosso pela mete, GROVEL!"

So the first part could be the verbal component as well, with the "command" coming at the end. In such a case, it would probably take a few seconds to speak the entire spell as you cast it.

Ultimately, it is just a judgement call for each group


I don't think that follows necessarily. It depends entirely on your game world, etc.

And even then, with the current rules and sans a house-rule, wouldn't it be that way already?

Oh sure, this all falls into the "5e doesn't really tell us anything about how the mechanics of spellcasting function" bucket.

 

[ECMO3]

...and you haven't thought for a second that maybe - MAYBE - the rules reflect, at least in some fashion, on what's happening in the game world? in a ROLEPLAYING GAME? i know about gamism, but this is just absurd.

ignoring free object interactions for a moment (believe me, i WILL get to them), what the door does when you let go of it is a COMPLETELY SEPARATE THING from what we're discussing.

Who said I was letting go of it .... which bring in another thing. I can swing it closed or I can push it closed slowly while holding the handle the whole time (and continuing to hold the handle after it closes) both of which take a different amount of time obviously and are doable as an action.

how does it not?

How does it. Are you telling me the rules imply iot takes the exact same amount of time to draw a crossbow bolt, put it in a crossbow and shoot a heavy crossbow as it does to toss a dagger that is already in your hands? Those things don't take the same amount of time, yet they take the same amount of actions.

like, what even is this example? how is it relevant to anything at all?

alright, here we go - everything i've bolded here can be done as a free object interaction.

which can only be done once a turn. To do it again you need to use an action to do it and it is a full action.

Now are you suggesting that free object interactions must take the same amout of time as an

the free object interaction is basically a free Use an Object action you get every turn that lets you...Use an Object...without taking an action. the reason why it's possible to both "draw a dagger from its sheath" and "draw a dagger from its sheath and throw it" is because if you haven't used your free object interaction for the turn,

No it isn't.

To start with the examples I was using are actions. You can interact with one object for free (PHB 190), and after you have done that you need to use an action and you can use an action whether or not you have used your interact with an object for something else.

So on my turn if I take a ring off of my finger as my free use an object action and then draw a dagger, it takes my entire action (use an object action) to do draw that dagger. That is his action in the example drawing the dagger ... or maybe he drew one as a free action and one as an action.. By the same token a fighter with the right fighting style can both draw the dagger and throw it with the same action.

This creates a logical contradiction - that it takes the same time for that character to use an action to draw a dagger and to use an action to draw a dagger and throw it. How can that be if all actions take the exact same amount of time?

you can use it and your action to do the latter. but if you HAVE used your free object interaction for the turn (such as by closing a door), you'd need to spend an action to Use an Object to unsheathe the dagger. this is an abstraction to reflect how you can do certain things as part of other things (for example, you can crash through a door or close it behind you while moving, or you can swing a sword in the same motion you use to remove it from its sheath).

Exactly. It is an abstraction and it makes no sense at all that all actions take the same time when they are obviously very different.

I mean you can pick a lock as an action .... and you can turn a doornob as an action. Do you really think those things take the same amount of time?

also, once again, i'm not saying each action takes the same amount of time. i'm saying actions take similar amounts of time. these are not the same statement.

They all take less than 6 seconds, but the variation in there is great with some taking fractions of a second and others taking much longer. In some cases it is hard to believe you even can do something in 6 seconds (picking the lock example), in others taking 6 seconds to do something would be excessive (flinging with a dagger).

also, you used that word again, "same". wrong word, buddy. it's "similar".

Similar is ambigous. What kind of precision are you talking about when you use that word?

 

[ezo]

Oh sure, this all falls into the "5e doesn't really tell us anything about how the of spellcasting function" bucket.

Yep... unfortunately.