D&D 5E Casting multiple spells with bonus spells and the order they are cast.

JonnyP71

Explorer
And at the very start of this I said - "It is possible (without action surge) to cast 3 spells per initiative sequence. An action (cantrip), a bonus action, and a reaction (eg shield or counterspell). The reaction spell can happen at any time, during anyone's turn, as long as the trigger conditions are met."

To which you replied I was wrong... note I said initiative sequence (ie round), not turn.
 

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Reread the definition again. That one applies to speech related actions. I know it must be hard to accept but it really is the 3rd definition that can be used. It is the only logical choice as this is the only definition that applies to actions.

This means that (in our case) a reaction is always outside the turn sequence. Is it so hard to see?
 

Caliban

Rules Monkey
Reread the definition again. That one applies to speech related actions. I know it must be hard to accept but it really is the 3rd definition that can be used. It is the only logical choice as this is the only definition that applies to actions.

This means that (in our case) a reaction is always outside the turn sequence. Is it so hard to see?

That you are incorrect and are cherry picking things that support your false narrative? That is incredibly easy to see.
 

Ovinomancer

No flips for you!
That specific rule (reaction spells are cast in response to a specific trigger which can occur on your turn or someone else's) doesn't state that it trumps the other specific rule (when you cast a bonus action spell, the only other spells you can cast on your turn are cantrips).

So which one is more specific? Let's look at what they let you do:

Reaction spells can specifically be cast on your turn your someone else's turn. (There is no such thing as "not part of a turn". Everything happens on someone's turn.)
Bonus action spells specifically limit you to cantrips on your turn.

The bonus action spell rule is actually more specific, so it trumps the reaction spell rule. You can only cast a reaction spell after casting a bonus action spell if the reaction spell is a cantrip.

Actually, the most specific rules in place are the individually specific triggers and effects for every reaction.

Generally, if you cast a bonus action spell, you can only cast a 1-action cantrip during the rest of your turn. This applies every time you cast a bonus action spell. Reactions, however, only occur when their trigger occurs, and only do what they say they do - no more or less. So, if someone (or something) else triggers a reaction, and you chose to use your reaction, you can do that reaction then before anything else happens. If that reaction is a spell, then the trigger must happen and then you can only use that spell for your reaction. This is far more specific than the general bonus action spellcasting rule because it only obtains in very specific circumstances (the trigger) and only has very specific results (whatever the reaction ability allows). In other words, the more general rule is what you normally do on your turn, including restrictions on bonus action spellcasting. The specific rule is the specific text for each reaction - their trigger(s) and allowed special actions.

Reactions are, by nature of their narrow rules, more specific than the general case of bonus action spellcasting.

Now, you can disagree with that, but then you're faced with a situation where a reaction's trigger can occur but the reaction cannot happen. IE, I can trigger my use of counterspell, use my reaction to counterspell, but be prevented from counterspelling. I honestly can't think of another situation where that can occur. I'm sure someone can help me on that,, though.
 

Caliban

Rules Monkey
And at the very start of this I said - "It is possible (without action surge) to cast 3 spells per initiative sequence. An action (cantrip), a bonus action, and a reaction (eg shield or counterspell). The reaction spell can happen at any time, during anyone's turn, as long as the trigger conditions are met."

To which you replied I was wrong... note I said initiative sequence (ie round), not turn.

So you agree that the counterspell can't take place on your turn - but can on someone else's turn?

Because you said 'during anyone's turn' - which would imply that you think it could be cast during your turn, after casting the bonus actin spell. Which specifically what I was objecting to.
 

Again, only the Devs will settle this.

Some people here will only accept their view, I should've stayed out of this trend. Believe what you want. I'm out.
 

Caliban

Rules Monkey
Reactions are, by nature of their narrow rules, more specific than the general case of bonus action spellcasting.

Nope. They are not more specific. For one thing - the bonus action spellcasting is actually a specific rule, not a general one. It overrides the general spellcasting rules.

There is no matching rule spelled out for reaction spells. It's just mentioned in their casting time. So the specific rule (bonus action spellcasting) overrides the general rule (you can cast spells according to their casting time).

Now, you can disagree with that, but then you're faced with a situation where a reaction's trigger can occur but the reaction cannot happen. IE, I can trigger my use of counterspell, use my reaction to counterspell, but be prevented from counterspelling.

Yup. Them's the breaks.
 


Caliban

Rules Monkey
Again, only the Devs will settle this.

Some people here will only accept their view, I should've stayed out of this trend. Believe what you want. I'm out.

And I provided a quote from Jeremy Crawford, which you have conveniently ignored:

Casting a bonus action spell means no other spells that turn but a cantrip with a casting time of 1 action.
 

CapnZapp

Legend
Congrats, you made me go find a dev's reply on this.

@JeremyECrawford Can I cast Feather Fall as reaction if I have already cast a spell (not cantrip) during my action?

Casting a spell as an action doesn't prevent you from casting one as a reaction on your turn. A bonus action is another story (PH, 202) #DnD https://twitter.com/Stephen82542166/status/857252155706679296…​

https://www.sageadvice.eu/2017/05/2...i-have-already-cast-a-spell-during-my-action/

Can we now just agree that "another story" means "no", so we can end this silliness? Thank you.
 

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