Castles and DnD

[gizmo33]

Does it make sense that people would build castles in a DnD world? If your answer is no, what changes do you think should be made to restore the castle as a sensible style of fortification?

What I would be looking for would be the least amount of change - castles should look and act as close to real historical castles as possible. The DnD magic system should work as close to it's original conception as possible. Etc.

Castles in medieval Europe started out as piles of dirt and wood. As vulnerabilities to fire and axe became apparent, construction moved to stone. As square stone towers became susceptible to mining, round stone towers developed. It seems that as a castle's vulnerabilities were discovered, new methods were developed to counter them. Can the same be done in DnD?

Here's a list of possible changes (or codification of things I already do IMC):

1. Lower the cost - assume magic plays a role in key areas to accomplish this. Perhaps 30,000 gp for a shell keep, up to 250,000 gp for a large castle.

2. Develop special materials, as suggested by others on another post:
a. lead shielding for certain key rooms to protect against scrying and teleport. Create house rule that 80% shielding is sufficient.
b. Gorgonsblood mortar. What is it's power? As I recall from an earlier edition this would protect vs. etherealness. Should there be an equivalent mortar to ward against earth-based spells? Spell resistance?

3. A mostly stone construction, specially treated wood, roofs of clay - would those be sufficient to protect against fireballs?

4. Castle chaplain - mid level cleric with responsibility for glyphs of warding and other wards.

5. Specially trained hounds to detect invisible creatures? Squeaking floorboards (were these called nightingale floors in Asia?) that reveal invisible. Barrel of soot/chalk available in all guard rooms? Tapestries/doors sufficient?

6. Other spells and magic items that would help in key areas - gravity spheres against flying? Special glyphs against glamer?

Is this a lost cause?

 

[adwyn]

The problem with being a defender is that your location is generally fixed. That being said, you would want protection, and a stone fortification is still better than most of the other options. The details are going to be determined by the expected foes, so the type of castle is still going to vary by campaign.

 

[Thornir Alekeg]

I think castles make perferctly good sense to build in D&D unless high level wizards are a dime a dozen. Castles are well suited still to hold off armies of warriors, hordes of orcs etc. Trying to make a castle magic-proof is darn near impossible - the costs are too high. Yes, as a result a castle can easily be infiltrated by the flying invisble wizard - but the best protection against him is very simple - doors. Lots of doors with intentionally squeaky hinges. In a high-magic setting I could see castles with magic defenders. Mid to high level mages equipped with wands of Dispel Magic to counterspell attacking wizards.

The lead thing for protection from scying makes sense for a war room or other areas where important meetings are held. It is one of the only things I would concern myself with in building a castle to defend it from magic.

 

[Kid Charlemagne]

The question always becomes an issue of cost versus benefit. A standard D&D world doesn't have all that many wizards or clerics capable of bypassing the normal castles defenses. I don't see the more dangerous monsters as being omnipresent, either, so in my games, castles exist just as normal.

Some have extra protections to prevent scrying and extraplanar excursions, sometimes just on small sections of the castle, but for the most part, they are very like ordinary castles.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Castles still make sense in a magic infused world, but designs would be a little more varied due to the unique supernatural threats each region would face.

COUNTERMEASURES:

Invisibility- Nightengale floors and squeaky doors, specially trained dogs, sawdust and/or soot on the floor. Bead-curtains every 20 feet down a hallway. Recruiting troops that have the ability to detect invisible. Minor magic items. Mages with spells like Pyrotechnics.

Flying- towers and catwalks get pavillion style roofs, possibly topped with materials to decrease friction, retard fire or acid, etc. Greater emphasis on ranged weapons and spells.

Tunnelers- a well patrolled false basement. Water spells.

Incorporeals- ghost-touch weapons.

Damage Reduction- depending on type, a special armory with Cold Iron, silver, etc weapons.

GENERAL FEATURES

Improved Communications, Transportation, Intelligence.

Magical Firepower- Mages, Clerics and possibly Druids. Psi characters too, possibly.

 

[gizmo33]

Trying to make a castle magic-proof is darn near impossible - the costs are too high.

True - I'm just trying to even the odds. My personal target it to make any caster of up to 11th level think twice about what they do. Even uncertainty is an improvement. Beyond 11th, and I would think casters would be increasingly unhampered by the protections offered by a "normal" castle. That's ok, they have bigger fish to fry at that level.

 

[gizmo33]

Bead-curtains every 20 feet down a hallway.

Cool. I'll add this to my list. I guess a bead curtain would impose a -4 to move silently.

towers and catwalks get pavillion style roofs, possibly topped with materials to decrease friction, retard fire or acid, etc. Greater emphasis on ranged weapons and spells.

Yea, covered walkways seem to have been in use even in the real world, for protection against rocks and stones - so I guess their frequency of use would increase. Slate roofs were probably fairly common and would be standard IMC.

What would "emphasis on ranged weapons and spells" mean? I always like ballista for their range. One of the problems is that a flying wizard has a great range on a fireball spell (600 ft or more IIRC). Again, I don't expect to kill him every time, I suppose that one or two medium level archers would be sufficient? I guess "Captain of the Archers" would be a standard post at a castle?

 

[Hand of Evil]

While the debate on castles is old I think you forget one key reason to have them, monsters! The hordes of non-magic using, hack and slash monsters that roam the lands; a castle keep them out (mostly).

 

[LostSoul]

What's the cost for making a Magnificent Mansion permanent (via some type of magic item)? It might be worth it for the king to have his keep in an unassailable mansion in a different plane.

 

[S'mon]

Hi Gizmo - all your ideas are good. I think the most important things are (1) cut costs to something reasonable like 1/10 DMG prices and (2) create/modify spells that give workable defences; eg I let Spell Resistance be cast permanently on buildings, 1 10' cube/caster level & 5 XP per cube - a lot of XP for a huge castle, but worth it. Likewise antimagic, energy resistance etc. One idea I use - most major castles IMC have an anti-magic or dispel magic shield cast over the sky above their roofs so any magical fliers are caught in the shield...