Castles&Crusades: Is this "The One"?

[GothmogIV]

My group is a bunch of middle aged dudes who cut their teeth on 1e&2e. We also played a few Chaosium games back in the day (CoC, Stormbringer). We played 3e for a few years before life got in the way (wives, children, geography).

In 2019, I got the 5e books and we began to play again--quite frequently, and online, during the pandemic. 5e never felt right to me as a DM. I still had an 2e mindset, but we were playing an entirely different game. I couldn't get over how powerful the characters were, and how different the action economy had become with an endless parade of 'readied action/action/bonus action/reaction," all of which were just mechanical. I came to loathe it. My players weren't roleplaying, nor were they really thinking that much: they were just calling out their endless iterations of race/class/subclass actions on their character sheets. I ended up incorporating some house rules: gritty realism, bans on certain spells, etc. and it went better, but I was on the hunt for a better system, but it had to be supported on VTT.

I have found that we are all having a better experience using Castles&Crusades. They are not fantasy superheros mechanically annihilating everything in front of them. Sometimes the even have to...retreat! They are playing smarter because they can't depend on some boring ass built-in 'action' on their character sheet. The stakes feel higher. If feels dangerous again. It's way more fun!

 

[CrysmalonDM]

A few years ago I thought it was the one. I even started an Arden Vul game using C&C about 1.5 years ago and it's going well and I'll continue so long as we're having fun. That said, I've decided it's not all that. TLG's book and editing quality is a hot mess. It drives me crazy to locate information and, upon finding that info, discover typos, block text and unclear or missing procedures, some of which have been reported for many years without being resolved. So keep that in mind. I like the Siege engine, but saving throws for non-prime ability scores are near impossible by the book (much more difficult than BX or AD&D) so thinking of houseruling that a bit. I've houseruled C&C enough and am considering a decent amount more that it's become apparent my next game just needs to be OSE - it's clean, it works, it's easy to understand and I don't have to look at editing messes.

 

[GothmogIV]

T

A few years ago I thought it was the one. I even started an Arden Vul game using C&C about 1.5 years ago and it's going well and I'll continue so long as we're having fun. That said, I've decided it's not all that. TLG's book and editing quality is a hot mess. It drives me crazy to locate information and, upon finding that info, discover typos, block text and unclear or missing procedures, some of which have been reported for many years without being resolved. So keep that in mind. I like the Siege engine, but saving throws for non-prime ability scores are near impossible by the book (much more difficult than BX or AD&D) so thinking of houseruling that a bit. I've houseruled C&C enough and am considering a decent amount more that it's become apparent my next game just needs to be OSE - it's clean, it works, it's easy to understand and I don't have to look at editing messes.

The indexing is definitely an issue,

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

My group is a bunch of middle aged dudes who cut their teeth on 1e&2e. We also played a few Chaosium games back in the day (CoC, Stormbringer). We played 3e for a few years before life got in the way (wives, children, geography).

In 2019, I got the 5e books and we began to play again--quite frequently, and online, during the pandemic. 5e never felt right to me as a DM. I still had an 2e mindset, but we were playing an entirely different game. I couldn't get over how powerful the characters were, and how different the action economy had become with an endless parade of 'readied action/action/bonus action/reaction," all of which were just mechanical. I came to loathe it. My players weren't roleplaying, nor were they really thinking that much: they were just calling out their endless iterations of race/class/subclass actions on their character sheets. I ended up incorporating some house rules: gritty realism, bans on certain spells, etc. and it went better, but I was on the hunt for a better system, but it had to be supported on VTT.

I have found that we are all having a better experience using Castles&Crusades. They are not fantasy superheros mechanically annihilating everything in front of them. Sometimes the even have to...retreat! They are playing smarter because they can't depend on some boring ass built-in 'action' on their character sheet. The stakes feel higher. If feels dangerous again. It's way more fun!

Yeah, the OSR is definitely where that vibe still exists and there are so many good, supported rulesets out there, there's something for nearly everyone. (And it's pretty easy to hack one of these rulesets into a perfect fit, if needed.) I'm glad C&C is clicking for you.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

The indexing is definitely an issue,

It's very weird, because in so many ways, the Troll Lords come off as nice, conscientious guys. But when it comes to editorial practices, there's a real shrug and "good enough" attitude, despite their fans/customers repeatedly telling them they want them to do better.

If they got a handle on that (and maybe took another crack at saving throws and the SIEGE Engine), C&C would be pretty close to perfect.

But the editing and the SIEGE engine were what ultimately drove me and my group away from C&C, after playing it throughout the 4E and COVID lockdown eras.

 

[Jahydin]

That said, I've decided it's not all that. TLG's book and editing quality is a hot mess. It drives me crazy to locate information and, upon finding that info, discover typos, block text and unclear or missing procedures, some of which have been reported for many years without being resolved.

This is so frustrating. Even their closest friends poked fun at the editing to kind of nudge them in the right direction. When the anniversary edition was announced, one of the main selling points was they hired an actual editor. Finally! But not very much was fixed from what I've seen.

I love C&C, but the last several years has just been one misstep after the other.

Disagreements with the company aside, still love SIEGE and love playing around with it. Also, still in love with the treasure tables; I prefer the "by level" instead of odd D&D alphabet system.

 

[Jahydin]

ACKS II is my go-to OSR game. There's little to nothing you can't do in a fantasy RPG with it.

Same. Tied with Hyperborea mechanics wise, but dislike the human-centric and sci-fi aspects of the setting. My next game will probably be Gods of the Forbidden North though, so hard not to choose Hyperborea.

Dragonslayer, and Adventures Dark and Deep are very close too. I still enjoy taking each off the shelf for a read, but minor nit-picks like percentile strength and racial level restrictions make ACKS the winner for me.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

Disagreements with the company aside, still love SIEGE and love playing around with it. Also, still in love with the treasure tables; I prefer the "by level" instead of odd D&D alphabet system.

Yeah, they have a lot of great ideas and they capture the AD&D vibe better than anyone else I'm aware of in the OSR space. I do kind of wish they were just in the business of supporting someone else's OSR core books, though ...