Castles & Crusades...not sure about it

OK, I picked up C&C and I've more or less read it. I'm finding that there's too much 1st ed stuff in there :confused: (too much 1st ed stuff that I don't like), and some of the 3rd ed stuff that I did like...is missing. :(

I don't think this is going to work out. I'll try reading it again, but it might go up for sale soon. (if so, it'd be $15.00). :\
 
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Well, the system is pretty easy to tweak. Many groups introduce house rules in order to modify the system to their needs and tastes. This can be done without much worry about 'breaking' the system, since it was designed in a relatively modular way.

People might be able to give you some concrete advice if you mentioned:

(a.) those OAD&D elements in C&C that you do not like; and
(b.) those 3e elements that you wished were in the game.

With some more information, it could be possible to tell you whether or not C&C can be adapted to suit your needs.

If you are simply looking for '3e lite', though, you might be better off with a game like Blue Rose.
 

Ghost2020 said:
<...>too much 1st ed stuff that I don't like, and some of the 3rd ed stuff that I did like...is missing.
What specifically you don't like, what you miss from 3e, and (if there is some) what C&C stuff you do actually like?
 


Ghost2020 said:
I'm finding that there's too much 1st ed stuff in there :confused: (too much 1st ed stuff that I don't like), and some of the 3rd ed stuff that I did like...is missing. :(

Ghost, if you can tell us what you HOPED to see, we also might be able to point you toward a game more fitting with your tastes. There are several choices out there that do "D&D, but simpler", nowadays. For instance, if you were looking for something more 3e-ish, and customizeable, but simpler to resolve combats and turns, then Green Ronin's Blue Rose System (the "TRUE 20" system) might be what you want to look at.

If you wanted something much more framework, but with systems modular enough to add back in certain parts, C&C is a good system for this. C&C went back to the more "archetypal" system a la 3E, to serve as a system in the spirit of AD&D, but which is receiving active support.

There are other systems, such as Big Eyes, Small Mouth's d20 rules, which keep the core d20 mechanic but step away from classes in general.

There are lots of options, but the main thing is: what do you want to see?
 

I think the problem is stemming from a session about a month ago. It was D&D 3e and it had heavy mini use. I think that just crippled what could have been an exciting game. It turned into a wargame instead of an RPG. Ugh.

Now, my own personal style is to use a marker board, but not really heavy on minis and moving x amount of squares, etc. I like an exciting combat that moves fast, I can do that with 3e.

I've tried/own Unisystem (All Flesh, Armageddon), BESM, Savage Worlds, Palladium, GURPS, D&D 3.x, Everquest...etc. I enjoy all of them.

I just think that C&C is just not to my tastes. It's not a hack on the system or product. Cripes, the book is packed! It's a great deal for the money.

Some things I did not really like:
Fighters multi-attack against d6 opponents is a bit silly. By the time they can do multi-attacks, that type of opponent is few and far between. At 8th level I hardly think d6 hit dice creatures are an issue.

Bonus spells only one spell, not the range like 3e.

The leveling and having to train made me chuckle. Wow...never even used that in the original edition (that's easily dropped though).

Some things I REALLY like:
Feats: None. Not that I don't like feats, but at times it's just window dressing that clogs up the works.

Combat structure: No AoO, simplified. (see above for minis burnout).

Simplified 'skill'/attribute check system.

Some nitpicks for the book would be to have the character abilities on that class's xp chart,not in the text. Or at least bulleted in the text for easier reference. That's minor though.

Like I stated earlier, it's a nice product and it seems pretty sound, but I just don't think it's to my taste. Anything that I need fixing in 3e, I've made some minor home rules (like NO minis! ; ) and it would be silly to start all over with another system when 3e does what I want.
 

Ghost2020 said:
Some things I did not really like:
Fighters multi-attack against d6 opponents is a bit silly. By the time they can do multi-attacks, that type of opponent is few and far between. At 8th level I hardly think d6 hit dice creatures are an issue.

Bonus spells only one spell, not the range like 3e.

The leveling and having to train made me chuckle. Wow...never even used that in the original edition (that's easily dropped though).

Some things I REALLY like:
Feats: None. Not that I don't like feats, but at times it's just window dressing that clogs up the works.

Combat structure: No AoO, simplified. (see above for minis burnout).

Simplified 'skill'/attribute check system.

Sounds like all the things you don't like ARE easily droppable from the system. However, if you are still into new systems, in particular Blue Rose's mechanics may be something you want to look at or at least borrow from. There are several threads on the topic in this forum:

http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=124570
http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=130484
 

True, those are easily fixable.
I think I would change the attribute bonuses as well. I don't think that'd unbalance the game too much, I'd keep the original 3e progression.

I might see if my wife would want to run this. The more I read, the more it's starting to grow on me.
 



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