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Challenge! I want to convert your concept!

SweeneyTodd

First Post
I'm thinking that almost all of the spells in the 3.x PHB that aren't strictly combat-oriented could be made into rituals.

Hey, they covered Scry and Teleport, which were the ones that gave people the most issues it seems, so make any effect you're worried might be "game-breaking" as restricted as those are, and the stuff you're not worried about can be more in line with what the "typical" rituals of that level are like.

Another thought I had: If you've got folks with a bunch of rituals that could be applied to a skill challenge, let them make an Arcana check (with some bonus representing the ritual's use) to stand in for a skill check where it seems appropriate. Alternately, if the ritual could be used to make a given skill more effective, give a bonus directly to that skill. I think that could be used to good effect in things like the infiltration discussion people were having -- the spell/ritual doesn't just give you a free success, but using it gives you a solid bonus. The skill check sort of determines if you were able to leverage the magical advantage into success.

The whole idea of the thread is that "converting your concept" is not the same thing as a direct conversion, so I think any manner of creative thinking is welcome in here. :) I do think it's great that people are distinguishing reflavoring from mechanical changes, just so that a GM who might want to use one of these concepts can get a quick handle on how much houseruling is involved.
 
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theNater

First Post
Ifni said:
This looks like fun :) Okay, let's go through my currently-in-play 3.5 characters. I suspect that at least one of these is trivial to convert, and at least two are very difficult, but we'll see what others think.
Wow. That's a lot of information. I'll see what I can do.

1. Sounds like we're going to start with a cleric using the battle cleric build. The chosen foe of evil outsiders makes it sound like you'd want to use the Radiant Servant paragon path, because its Solar Wrath power and Lasting Light feature both make you more dangerous to undead and demons. Clerics are proficient with the quarterstaff by default, and whether the strikes are a single powerful blow or a series of quick jabs is a question of flavor. Sentinel Strike(17), for example, does 3[W]+str damage, which we can say is three hits in rapid succession. The cleric has a good amount of healing and empowering spells, the latter of which we can consider as holy rage.

The cleric has a few powers that directly involve flame; Purifying Fire(15) sounds like it would be perfect for this character. If you find that you're not getting enough firepower out of cleric abilities, you can multiclass into warlock or wizard to pick up a little more. I think rituals have you covered the rest of the way. Cure Disease for healing the sick, Traveler's Feast for feeding the hungry, and Phantom Steed(with some heavy reflavoring) to ride the wind.

2. I'm thinking wizard primarily. She and her friends can fly with Mass Fly(22), she's got good access to freezing mists like Freezing Cloud(1), blinding dust clouds with Wall of Fog(6), and the dark shadows of her nightmares with Evard's Black Tentacles(19). We can reflavor many spells with the conjuration keyword to be spirits of the dead rising to protect her, and cantrips, especially Prestidigitation, cover several of the minor effects mentioned. Magical protection from falls is covered by Feather Fall(2), and Displacement(16) can make luck go your way.

For some ways to help your allies show off, you may want to multiclass into warlord. While a warlord can't teleport allies into position, they have a few powers that move allies around the battlefield, like Steel Monsoon(3) and White Raven Formation(16).

Rituals can give you some of the effects not yet covered, like Knock and Phantom Steed, and the knowledge skills have been lumped into Arcana(and maybe a little Religion), so acquiring those won't be hard.

There are a few tricky things. I don't know of any ability that outright stops spells as they are being cast. The closest I can find at the moment is Shape the Dream from the Wizard of the Spiral Tower paragon path, which only works on attacks that have hit your will defense. There is also very little spell reshaping(with the exception of walls, which can be shaped a number of ways). The epic tier feat Spell Accuracy is able to adjust which regions are hit by spells by a little bit. Limited Wish is pretty solidly out, and the only abilities I've seen that redirect incoming attacks belong to defenders, who draw the attack to them.

2a. This guy's going to require some fairly heavy reflavoring however you choose to approach him. With that in mind, you can start with either of the leader classes, as they both have the ability to provide bonuses to attacks, damage, AC, and saves. I'd recommend cleric for the regeneration-like effects of Consecrated Ground(5) and Purifying Fire(15), and the weapon-boosting Weapon of the Gods(5).

For the striker-controller abilities he carries, he can multiclass into warlock or wizard. I don't know if either one will provide him with all the abilities he wants, but I think he can get most of them.

3. Totally a striker. Ranger's your way to go here. Given the amount of movement you want to be doing, the Archer Fighting Style is probably your best choice, giving you some extra AC vs. opportunity attacks. Crank up your mobility with Undaunted Stride(10) and Longstrider(16). Select the ranger powers that can use any weapon, like Evasive Strike(1) and Attacks on the Run(9). Round out your power selection by multiclassing into paladin for some radiant damage(to which undead often have a vulnerability) based off of your weapon. Martyr's Retribution(5), for example, is quite good for this.

Keen eyes and ears are covered by the Perception Skill, as is tracking.

4. Most of what you want here is in the realm of the warlock powers. Becoming airborne through Cloak of Shadow(16), becoming tougher with a Shroud of Black Steel(6), cloak yourself in shadows with the Shadow Walk class feature, jumping through shadows with Ethereal Stride(2), conjuring up clouds of blinding dust with Hunger of Hadar(5), and so on.

About the only things you can't pick up with warlock are the abilities to create illusions, which you can manage with the Hallucinatory rituals, the ability to see in the dark, which can be picked up by an item(Goggles of Night), and providing flight, speed, and extra attacks to your allies. Given the way you contrasted the allies flight to your own flight, I'd use Phantom Steed for that(it'll take a while to get your Arcana check up to where you can get a 40 reliably, but it can be done), and get the other abilities by multiclassing into warlord.

And for the gnome becoming draconic part, I'd recommend using dragonborn racial traits and the appearance of a gnome. Alternately, if your GM is up for it, start with gnome racial traits, and every time you gain a utility power exchange one gnome racial trait for a dragonborn racial trait. That option isn't supported by the PHB, but I felt it was interesting enough to be worth mentioning anyway.

5. I'm gonna work this one kind of backwards, because the "forked lightning bolt" strike with the lance sounds like it will be most difficult to make happen. Fortunately, there is a paragon feat that is directly on point called Lightning Arc. So now we need to gather some lightning-based attacks to use it with. The lightning and weapon keywords rarely appear in conjunction, but they do occur in two cleric powers: Arc of the Righteous(13) and Holy Spark(15). So you'll need to at least multiclass into cleric. You may want to take cleric as your primary class, depending on how many self-buffs and how much healing you want. In either case, ranger makes a good choice for your other class, as it provides some good mobility and some other attack options. If you want to be able to make airborne excursions, you can get some flight abilities by using warlock or wizard for your non-cleric class and flavor your flight as riding the bat.

Full rules for mounts are not in the PHB, so if you want the bat to be an actual mount, you'll need to work things out with your DM.
 

theNater

First Post
D.Shaffer said:
Are you restricting things JUST to the PHB? Because there's the Doppleganger as PC write up in the back of the MM too.
That Doppleganger is a good suggestion. Thanks!

I'm just working out of the PHB at the moment. Partly because that's all I'm willing to assume that players have access to, but mostly because I don't know all of the options in the other books, and can't yet refer to them reliably.

Admittedly, I don't know all the options in the PHB either, but I've spent more time with it than with the others, so it's easier to find relevant information and options.
 

theNater

First Post
Dragonbait said:
Here is one, if this is still going on:
Darastrix ux Bahumati. My level 11 NG dragonborn dragonwraught kobold sorcerer 6 (With the dragonblood alternate sorcerer class feature)/Dragonheart Mage 5. His bloodline is a sand dragon. He has been aged to the venerable to gain all the ability score bonuses, and because of his race, he suffers no penalties. He was built with the 32 point buy. His Strength is abysmal (6, I think), but his Charissma is 24 (with the help of a Cloack of Charisma +4). He has wings from the dragonborn racial traits, and can breath fire. He went through the lesser and greater rituals and so has Identify as a spell-like ability 3/day (for now)

He'd focus on Diplomacy and Arcana, and with his racial feats in 3ed, he has something like a +22 (?) in knowledge Arcana, and +20 in Diplomacy.

Do you need to know more?

Oh, and I'm not afraid to house rule stuff. I want to see how close to the original product I can get.
I don't know all of the abilities available to the dragonborn, dragonwrought, dragonblood, and Dragonheart Mage in 3rd edition, but from what I gather, you can get some good mileage out of 4th edition's dragonborn. They come with the breath weapon built in, and get a charisma bonus, making 20 charisma possible at level 8 and easy by level 14. The ability to fly can come from either the wizard's Fly(16) or the warlock's Wings of the Fiend(22); there are other, less powerful flight abilities available at lower levels.

Magic item identification is now done with Arcana skill checks, so a good intelligence and training in Arcana should have you covered there, possibly with the Skill Focus feat attached to it as well. Similarly, you can get a very impressive Diplomacy score by Skill Training and Skill Focus.

I assume that as a sorcerer/dragon mage, much of your combat is done through spells; being a wizard or a warlock will have you covered there. If, on the other hand, the draconic options have made you a tooth-and-claw fighter, you can use whichever of the striker or defender classes is most appropriate and multiclass into wizard or warlock for flight.

And if you're not afraid to houserule stuff, well, you can do pretty much anything as long as you clear it with the GM. Use appropriate powers as a starting point, and tweak 'em as needed.

Edited to add the last paragraph.
 
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