D&D 5E Challenging a tanky one-trick pony PC

Oofta

Legend
I have had similar things and there are some good ideas already. Some other things I do is vary attacks. His style doesn't do anything for saving throws, enemies can still grapple him. Throw a dragon, have the dragon grab him since that's opposed strength vs athletics and then fly off. You can drop him if you want or just split the party. Or throw a ghost dragon, their breath weapon paralyzes so you can get advantage and auto crit.

But another option? Talk to them. Explain what the issue is you're seeing. Maybe he's like Bob in my old group that just wanted to dominate combat and they don't care if they destroy the fun of everyone. But it can't hurt to just chat with them in a non-confrontational way about the issue that you see.

If that doesn't resolve anything? Target things other than AC. Take a look at their character sheet and see what their low stat is. Dominate them and have the PC start targeting allies with the spiritual guardians. Have enemies with counterspell or dispel magic. Have the earth open up and swallow them if you have to.

Kidding about that whole swallow them up thing, unless of course your NPC has Earthquake. ;)
 

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Quickleaf

Legend
The PC in question is a dwarf forge cleric 7 / watcher paladin 4 / storm sorcerer 1. He has an AC of 23 thanks to his plate armor, shield, cloak of protection and class features, and what he likes to do is wade into melee next to the fighter and the barbarian, cast spirit guardians, then dodge to impose disadvantage on anyone trying to attack him to disrupt the spell. He also has the Protection fighting style, so once per round he can reduce incoming damage to one of the other PCs standing next to him. If he doesn't use that, he also has the option of casting either shield or absorb elements to further protect himself (and lessen the likelihood of losing spirit guardians).
With apologies to your player(s)...
  1. Place more hazards and have enemies Shove/Grapple the dwarf PC into them. If you play Dodge RAW, it does not apply to Shove/Grapple attempts (RAW: Shove/Grapple is a special attack requiring the Attack Action, but it is not an "attack roll" which is what Dodge calls for). YMMV whether that's too rules lawyer-y for your group.
  2. Hit him hard and early, before he has a second turn to take the Dodge.
  3. Cast heat metal on the poor dwarf. Please use sparingly, same as dispel magic, because these are very hard counters that aren't terribly creative when used RAW.
  4. Don't target him specifically – drop ongoing area effects that require saving throws or simply deal auto-damage, requiring him to choose between movement or Dodge.
  5. See how his strategy works underwater or with environmental conditions that force Concentration checks.
  6. Present dungeons that offer alternative uses of 1st level spells slots, such as rebuilding a bridge or re-sanctifying a desecrated shrine. The idea is to drain spell slots normally used for shield / absorb elements, but do it in a way that is cool for the PC and gives them a moment to shine out of combat, thus making them burn higher level spell slots for shield / absorb elements, making it a harder choice.
  7. Make the fighter and/or barbarian radioactive, such as enveloping the fighter in an aura of flames that damages allies or charming the barbarian – breaking up their formation fighting tactic.
  8. Use invisible / hidden attackers that circumvent the "Until the start of your next turn, any attack roll made against you has disadvantage if you can see the attacker" stipulation of Dodge. Burrowing monsters bursting up from below work for this too.
  9. Present the PCs with a stealth infiltration scenario where they're invisible or separated, circumventing the "you can designate any number of creatures you can see to be unaffected by it" stipulation of Spirit Guardians, making it a riskier move to cast.
  10. Intensify the artillery forces of the enemies, and put them in harder to reach locations; don't necessarily worry about targeting the dwarf PC since he's only dangerous in melee. Instead pincushion his friends...... If you want to get nasty include some high-mobility skirmisher types, forcing the dwarf PC to choose between Reaction to use Protection (shield vs. arrows) or Reaction to opportunity attack.
 

EzekielRaiden

Follower of the Way
First: he's become the team powerhouse. Exploit this.

Consider the Worf Effect. Have a bad guy that has bigger fish to fry (at least for the time being), and thus tosses Sir Stormforge aside like a ragdoll before moving on to their current goal. This will instantly communicate to the players exactly how horrifically terrifying this enemy must be, and thus they'll have to find a tricky solution to deal with it. The player has already done all the work of establishing how powerful their character is, so judiciously undercutting that now and then will be highly effective at communicating how scary an enemy is.

Also, consider splitting the party. It's awesome that Sir Stormforge can kick all the ass and take all the names. He can't be in two places at once. Challenge the players with delays, diversions, split goals that have to be completed at the same time, etc. This both creates alternate pressures (any group that has Sir Stormforge is secure against violent danger, but because the party is split, they may not be secure against other dangers--perhaps Intelligence or Dexterity things, and sending both the Powerhouse and the Smart Guy off together almost certainly leaves huge weaknesses for the remainder.) This enables both more interesting risks, and the opportunity for a Big Damn Hero moment where Sir Stormforge sails in to hold off the bad guys.

Second, offer temptations and manipulations. Sir Stormforge is so powerful--why does he hang out with these chumps? Or perhaps Sir Stormforge is utterly dedicated to protecting/caring for his allies. That's a huge exploitable weakness. Does Sir Stormforge have any dark secrets? Guilt trips, berserk buttons, old flames, fragile loved ones, etc. Or perhaps he has hidden or not-so-hidden temptations. The player likes to pursue power--could they handle the temptation of a dangerous but objectively very powerful addictive supplement, like a drug or a magical effect? Conversely, if they're truly leaning into the Incorruptible Pure Pureness, how can that be used to manipulate them, particularly with their comparatively weaker allies? What sacrifices could he be persuaded to make? What incredibly dumb choices could he be forced into because "honor demands it" or the like? Security is only as strong as the weakest link--if you can't pick the lock, pick the person who holds the key.

Third, offer challenges that subvert the character's power. If there are long-running bad guys, surely they'll figure out that the powerhouse is almost invulnerable physically. Attack the mind, whether directly (mind control) or through things like illusions or disrupted perceptions. Or perhaps a "mirror-match," where the players must face off against something that matches (whether loosely or precisely) their own strengths, such that Sir Stormforge's invulnerability becomes itself a liability for the party. Or something that gets stronger based on how strong the opposition is--something that can only be defeated by a peaceful, passive response, not a violent one, meaning Sir Stormforge's invulnerability and (plausible) unwillingness to back down is exactly what would make the enemy unbeatable. Or throw out things that defy melee-range actions, e.g. some kind of undead or the like which consumes the life-force of things nearby (inflicting Exhaustion on opponents in melee when striking or when struck? I dunno, there are options.) Or perhaps the party needs to be sneaky--none of Sir Stormforge's abilities are useful for concealment, and indeed pretty much all of them are really loud and bright (hammer and anvil, thunder, and divine smite; forge-sparks, lightning, and...also divine smite!)--turn those strengths into disadvantages so he has to rely on his sneakier teammates. He's probably also relatively weak on knowledge skills and skills generally, so adventures that require a lot of skill rolls or that integrate skill usage into combat is a great way to reinforce that, for all his power, he cannot succeed alone.

Don't use any given response repeatedly, or even every other adventure--variety is the spice of life. But if the player has become a one-trick pony, there are still tons of things you can do to plausibly threaten the party or create tension.
 

pukunui

Legend
With apologies to your player(s)...
  1. Place more hazards and have enemies Shove/Grapple the dwarf PC into them. If you play Dodge RAW, it does not apply to Shove/Grapple attempts (RAW: Shove/Grapple is a special attack requiring the Attack Action, but it is not an "attack roll" which is what Dodge calls for). YMMV whether that's too rules lawyer-y for your group.
  2. Hit him hard and early, before he has a second turn to take the Dodge.
  3. Cast heat metal on the poor dwarf. Please use sparingly, same as dispel magic, because these are very hard counters that aren't terribly creative when used RAW.
  4. Don't target him specifically – drop ongoing area effects that require saving throws or simply deal auto-damage, requiring him to choose between movement or Dodge.
  5. See how his strategy works underwater or with environmental conditions that force Concentration checks.
  6. Present dungeons that offer alternative uses of 1st level spells slots, such as rebuilding a bridge or re-sanctifying a desecrated shrine. The idea is to drain spell slots normally used for shield / absorb elements, but do it in a way that is cool for the PC and gives them a moment to shine out of combat, thus making them burn higher level spell slots for shield / absorb elements, making it a harder choice.
  7. Make the fighter and/or barbarian radioactive, such as enveloping the fighter in an aura of flames that damages allies or charming the barbarian – breaking up their formation fighting tactic.
  8. Use invisible / hidden attackers that circumvent the "Until the start of your next turn, any attack roll made against you has disadvantage if you can see the attacker" stipulation of Dodge. Burrowing monsters bursting up from below work for this too.
  9. Present the PCs with a stealth infiltration scenario where they're invisible or separated, circumventing the "you can designate any number of creatures you can see to be unaffected by it" stipulation of Spirit Guardians, making it a riskier move to cast.
  10. Intensify the artillery forces of the enemies, and put them in harder to reach locations; don't necessarily worry about targeting the dwarf PC since he's only dangerous in melee. Instead pincushion his friends...... If you want to get nasty include some high-mobility skirmisher types, forcing the dwarf PC to choose between Reaction to use Protection (shield vs. arrows) or Reaction to opportunity attack.
Good tips! Thanks. I'm pretty sure I have used heat metal on him before, and I had the quaggoth thonot that cast it run off so he couldn't be targeted.

Can't charm the barbarian since he's a berserker but there was a time where he and the fighter both got cursed with demonic bloodlust and couldn't distinguish friend from foe. But in that instance, the dice were against me -- every time the PCs ended up attacking one of their companions, they missed! But every time they attacked an actual enemy, they hit! I remember commenting on that at the time.

Don't use any given response repeatedly, or even every other adventure--variety is the spice of life. But if the player has become a one-trick pony, there are still tons of things you can do to plausibly threaten the party or create tension.
Thanks for the advice. I don't want to become a one-trick pony myself, so I'll target him with various tactics sparingly. Just want to shake things up so this isn't always the most effective tactic.
 

So first off, this is pretty much standard cleric tactic #8. It is the cleric version of fireball. Smaller radius, no range, lower damage, but more duration. I sometimes think of it as the "holy bugzapper".


Some options:

Warn them about the next fight, and have it be something that makes the cleric casting a buff/protection more appealing than casting spirit guardian. This may help break the "everything is a nail" mindset. (In their defense, spirit guardians is a very good hammer)

Traps. Their little phalanx is almost certainly not going to look for traps. Pit traps, dead falls, poison gas, vats of oil (boiling or other wise), etc.

Use low level terrain modifiers (entangle, spike growth, ensanring strike, or just caltrops & ball bearing) to slow them down. This is essentially irrelevant if you don't have ranged attacks though. Combine with a rope ladder that is pulled up at a cliff face and then drop rocks on them.

Reach weapons to hit the meat shields from outside the spirit guardians.

Dispel/counterspell shouldn't be common but it also shouldn't be rare.

Similarly improved invisibility is well within enemy power levels and ranged weapons can let one NPC rip them up for quite some time, especially if they have a high movement (longstrider, expeditious retreat, maybe both).

Use AE damage attacks. Fireball is the spirit guardians of arcane casters, and it will hit the whole party with dex-save AE. Synaptic Static is an int-save AE that also imposes penalties on ability checks and specifically impacts concentration saves .
 

The reason Spike Growth is so great for stuff like this is that it explicitly inflicts damage every 5 feet. No save, no nothing. It's only 2d4, but on a literal reading of the spell, that means the PC has to take a Concentration check every 5 feet. It won't be a high DC, but it's a LOT of saves, and they're going to fail one eventually.
 
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Clint_L

Hero
Another thing I would consider is tweaking the adventure that your are running. Those pre-mades are usually tuned for an "average" party, and a group of experienced power gamers are going to need a bigger challenge.
 


Blue

Ravenous Bugblatter Beast of Traal
BTW, for me your OP hit the right balance between "I don't want to nerf him, just take him out of his comfort zone occasionally". I'm with that as well - let them enjoy their character, but toss things up.

They only have two ASI and aren't at the point where CHR adds to saves, so unless it's rolled ability scores they shouldn't have an amazing CON save.

Magic Missile is a wonderful way to blow concentration, especially if you have several junior casters doing it. A number of separate DC 10 checks, ignoring AC and absorb elements. Countered by Shield if they haven't used their reaction yet, but if they do then maybe it's time for the master caster to throw a big area of effect while Absorb Elements isn't handy.

Talking about that, my bet is their DEX save isn't high. Absorb Elements only protects against Acid, Cold, Fire, Lightning and Thunder. There are plenty of spells and monster breath weapons and the like that are save based and do other damage types like Poison.

Fliers could be out of range and make the target not worthwhile.

The bane of any caster is enough encounters between long rests. Though spell slots for a 10th level caster are pretty plentiful.

A bunch of giants or other heavy-hitting meatbags who can take the damage without worrying too much about it, have reach so they aren't clumped up to hit lots of them plus still attack with movement penalties, and if if they do go after him will hit hard enough to trigger a tough Concentration save.

A foe that grapples and moves him? Grapple doesn't go against AC, it goes against STR (Athletics) or DEX (Acrobatics), ignores the dodge condition, those reaction spells, and his massive AC.

Terrain and ranged attackers that make it hard to have a lot of foes in his Spiritual Guardians at the same time?

Again, don't do any of these frequently - this is just to occasionally need to adapt to being out of their comfort zone, not to regularly shut down his tactics.
 

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