• The VOIDRUNNER'S CODEX is LIVE! Explore new worlds, fight oppressive empires, fend off fearsome aliens, and wield deadly psionics with this comprehensive boxed set expansion for 5E and A5E!

D&D 5E Challenging a tanky one-trick pony PC

Im not really getting the 'no melee' advice.

The PCs are 13th level. Meaning monster HP are around 200 or so at this level.

A PC using his Action (and a 3rd level spell slot) to cast Spirit guardians (dealing like 10 damage per round or so), plus his Action on subsequent rounds to Dodge doesnt sound very efficient at all.

5 x 13th level PCs have an Adventuring Day budget of 67,500xp.

Lets look at a standard Adventuring day for them:
  • An Iron Golem (CR 16) is a Medium encounter for this party. (15,000 xp). For fun give it 3 x LR and 1 x LA (slam) as well.
  • An Ulitharid (add wall of force, counterspell and shield to spells known), and 2 x Mind flayers is a Hard encounter (21,600 xp)
  • 4 Flameskulls and 4 Helmed Horrors (the skulls are the Horrors heads, and their Shield and Blur spells also buff the Horrors!) is a Hard encounter (22,500xp)
  • 2 x Glabrezus (Medium encounter, 15,000 xp)
Each of those encounters challenges the Cleric for a number of reasons. AoE's and Slams at +13 (Golem), Power word Stun and Dispel magic (Demons), Int save or suck on an AoE (Mind flayers), and Fireballs on the Helmed horrors (who are immune) + Flameskulls (who also have magic missile).

They're all very thematic for the adventure as well.

If the above monsters are run intelligently on a single Adventuring day, they'll really challenge your party OP.
 

log in or register to remove this ad

pukunui

Legend
I wouldn't be surprised if his Int and Dex saves were not +0 (accounting for the cloak).
Correct. They are both at +1 thanks to the cloak.

A Mind Flayer (Psychic blast, Stun) would be hilarious against him. 4 of them vs a 13th level Party is only a Hard Encounter.
Oh yes, there's a whole level full of mind flayers coming up. That should be interesting.

Remember he needs a hand free to cast shield. It lacks M components so it cant be cast with a 'Shield bearing a holy symbol' in one hand, and a weapon in the other (without warcaster of course).
Yep. I mentioned that in the OP.
 


Zardnaar

Legend
Im not really getting the 'no melee' advice.

The PCs are 13th level. Meaning monster HP are around 200 or so at this level.

A PC using his Action (and a 3rd level spell slot) to cast Spirit guardians (dealing like 10 damage per round or so), plus his Action on subsequent rounds to Dodge doesnt sound very efficient at all.

5 x 13th level PCs have an Adventuring Day budget of 67,500xp.

Lets look at a standard Adventuring day for them:
  • An Iron Golem (CR 16) is a Medium encounter for this party. (15,000 xp). For fun give it 3 x LR and 1 x LA (slam) as well.
  • An Ulitharid (add wall of force, counterspell and shield to spells known), and 2 x Mind flayers is a Hard encounter (21,600 xp)
  • 4 Flameskulls and 4 Helmed Horrors (the skulls are the Horrors heads, and their Shield and Blur spells also buff the Horrors!) is a Hard encounter (22,500xp)
  • 2 x Glabrezus (Medium encounter, 15,000 xp)
Each of those encounters challenges the Cleric for a number of reasons. AoE's and Slams at +13 (Golem), Power word Stun and Dispel magic (Demons), Int save or suck on an AoE (Mind flayers), and Fireballs on the Helmed horrors (who are immune) + Flameskulls (who also have magic missile).

They're all very thematic for the adventure as well.

If the above monsters are run intelligently on a single Adventuring day, they'll really challenge your party OP.
At those levels it's often upcast Spirit guardians for 5-7d8damage+toll the dead or other spells incoming.
 


At those levels it's often upcast Spirit guardians for 5-7d8damage+toll the dead or other spells incoming.

The dude has 3 x 3rds, 3 x 4ths and 2 x 5ths, so 5d8 is the best he can do (twice per long rest) for like 22 damage (save for half).

Even assuming a failed save, 22 damage per round is pretty weak at 13th level for a 5th level spell slot. I mean, your Fighter is doing triple that damage to a single target without hardy any resource usage and can crank that up to the 3 figures with an Action surge.

It's really only good against one thing, and that's hordes of low HP mooks.

He's also a Cleric so arguably the main healer, and will likely need those slots for other things.

Again, my Adventuring Day above, would be more than a challenge for him and his party.
 

jgsugden

Legend
You don't need to do anything. This is not asn overwhelming game impact - it allows them to do a reasonable amount of damage and avoid going down - which is what happens in most situations in D&D. I see this all the time in my game - and rather than lament it, I make sure I celebrate their effectiveness. This allows these powerful heroes to feel like powerful heroes. If you go around countering their abilities to force them to change, in the end you're not playing D&D 'with' them, you're dictating D&D 'at' them. To that end, my main advice is to do nothing as a DM, but wait for the monsters to organically have a reason to do something about it and then allow them to use the resources they have to do so.

If you want to do something, still: Rather than using a stick of countering their approach, use a carrot of giving them an incentive to use other spells. Work in options where other approaches will be more effective to give them an incentive to be creative - or have enemy sp[ellcasters do other fun things with spells that are available to the cleric to encourage them to branch out.

However, will all of that being said, Role Play. If a smart enemy gets a chance to learn how the PC operates, they should absolutely take precautions. Keep it in character, though, and let it unfold naturally rather than contriving to make it happen. One of the groups which I am running is getting to be well known, and the fighter has a Cube of Force. The group has faced off against patrols from an enemy force and members of that enemy force have escaped to report back. That enemy force has now been given instructions for how to engage the PC. When these enemies meet the PC and recognize him, they use these countering approaches.
 

Spellcaster enemies? Dispel magic.
Non-spellcaster? hit and run.

But as others have said. It is just a matter of using varied encounters with all kinds of foes. Sometimes PCs have an easier time, sometimes not. Playing around the cleric is the way to go.

And even if they are effective, this is what we level up for. To be a useful member of the party in some way.
 
Last edited:

Stormonu

Legend
What about the other tiers - social and exploration? If he's using the same tactic over and over, likely Halaster is going to get annoyed or bored. He might whisk the character up for a more personalized challenge ("Let's see how you deal with ... this" - being anything from facing a tough creature challenge alone, putting the character through a maze, gauntlet or escape-room scenario; escorting one of Halasters accident-prone "pupils", "pets" or "guests"; adding lead leg/arm weights to the character or other hindering gear or anything that relatively amuses him), curse him or maybe even bounce him out of the dungeon requiring him to re-enter and navigate back to the rest of the party alone.
 

Shiroiken

Legend
Having played the Spirit Guardian Cleric before, you are maximum aggro. The DM should target you for just about everything, especially ranged attacks/AoE effect. Given this particular setup, your vulnerability is to disabling effects that target non-Wisdom (reminder: you can't Dodge with speed 0). When facing higher CR melee enemies, they tend to have a high attack mod, so even with Dodge and Shield you're going to take a hit periodically that might break concentration. This trick burns up a lot of resources too, so extended adventuring days take a heavy toll.
 

Voidrunner's Codex

Remove ads

Top