Challenging my high-lvl group (NPCs and monsters; my players shouldn't read this!)
- Thread starter Piratecat
- Start date
LightPhoenix
First Post
Well, what leaped to mind is one of the boss creatures in Castlevania: Symphony of the Night - it's basically a giant ball of zombies, with a controlling entity thing in the middle. The zombies protect the center and often fall in droves to attack you. The combat takes place in a pit of dead bodies.
Another good idea might be a larger version of Ghouleax - something Huge in size would be pretty scary, especially with levels. After all, if they can do it with Ghouleax, why not others.
Speaking of, is there any chance we could see Ghouleax/Aleax's supposed stats? Please no spoilers though, I wanna be a spoiler virgin when I read about Ghouleax.
LightPhoenix
Another good idea might be a larger version of Ghouleax - something Huge in size would be pretty scary, especially with levels. After all, if they can do it with Ghouleax, why not others.
Speaking of, is there any chance we could see Ghouleax/Aleax's supposed stats? Please no spoilers though, I wanna be a spoiler virgin when I read about Ghouleax.
LightPhoenix
Piratecat said:
Hehehe
I hope it lasted for more than a round though.
nice shields, those I will have to borrow, I have just been using a 'mystical gem' shoved into the cranium of the undead to do the same, but I like the shields, organic type quality, conjures images of fields of fungi that they are made from, definate target for pcs(ie side adventure) and also alows for more tactics to be brought into play.
BBQ Man
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Velenne
Explorer
Disclaimer: I wanted to post this here where your PC's wouldn't see. I'm not sure how much of it you would want them to know. ;}
Pkitty I've got a question for ya:
I've been reading the Dungeoncraft articles over the last few months from Dragon mag. I'm at school right now so I don't have them with me, but one of the guidelines to DM'ing that I thought was very insightful was: Don't create plot, create situations and let the PC's develop the plot.
Would you say this is something that you do when preparing for your games? How far in advance do you plan your story arc? I would imagine not far seeing as how those darn PC's tend to fiddle everything up.
IMC, I always kept the ultimate goal of the story in mind and let the PC's find their own way of getting there. I gave them options they essentially chose from, but I had a plot device that helped me do that (they were looking for pieces of the an artifact). Your game seems to be a little more free-form than that and it's a style I'd like to try now that the green is gone from behind my DM ears.
Pkitty I've got a question for ya:
I've been reading the Dungeoncraft articles over the last few months from Dragon mag. I'm at school right now so I don't have them with me, but one of the guidelines to DM'ing that I thought was very insightful was: Don't create plot, create situations and let the PC's develop the plot.
Would you say this is something that you do when preparing for your games? How far in advance do you plan your story arc? I would imagine not far seeing as how those darn PC's tend to fiddle everything up.
IMC, I always kept the ultimate goal of the story in mind and let the PC's find their own way of getting there. I gave them options they essentially chose from, but I had a plot device that helped me do that (they were looking for pieces of the an artifact). Your game seems to be a little more free-form than that and it's a style I'd like to try now that the green is gone from behind my DM ears.
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Piratecat
Sesquipedalian
BBQ Man, the problem with gems is that they're sort of a rules-breaking deux ex machina that prevents the cleric players from doing what they do best. That's why I'm using clerical bolstering and good tactics; no additional deux ex machina involved, and beatable by clever players!
Also, thank you so much for the skeletal siege engine idea. Yoink!
Velenne, I plan general plots months or even years ahead, subject to change. I plan specific games 1-2 sessions ahead, though. Usually I adlib everything, after knowing who is doing what in the world, and how they'd react to a given situation. I never map anything out in advance if I can possibly help it.
That Dungeoncraft advice is great. I follow his other advice: never do more work than you have to! *grin*
Also, thank you so much for the skeletal siege engine idea. Yoink!
Velenne, I plan general plots months or even years ahead, subject to change. I plan specific games 1-2 sessions ahead, though. Usually I adlib everything, after knowing who is doing what in the world, and how they'd react to a given situation. I never map anything out in advance if I can possibly help it.
That Dungeoncraft advice is great. I follow his other advice: never do more work than you have to! *grin*
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Anabstercorian
First Post
Might I recommend the Gemini technique?
Two high level Fighter5/DevotedDefender10's who declare each other to be their charge at the beginning of combat will simply dumbfound your party, especially if they have Deathward up. They'll be able to smack down your adventurers and laugh about it afterwards.
Two high level Fighter5/DevotedDefender10's who declare each other to be their charge at the beginning of combat will simply dumbfound your party, especially if they have Deathward up. They'll be able to smack down your adventurers and laugh about it afterwards.
Velenne
Explorer
I've had this one cooked up for awhile but it used the lich template instead of true ghoul.
Take yourself a typical Androsphinx. Good magical beasts that cast cleric spells and can do roars that are normally only effective if they don't happen to have any allies around.
Now, add your true ghoul template to it and surround him with some undead associates. Voila: His associats are immune to his fear roar, his paralyzation roar, and his ability damage roar.
But for true rat bastardness, advance your evil ghoul androsphinx to 22 HD. He now casts as an 11th level cleric (normal andros are 12 HD and cast as 6th level clerics. 12/2 = 6. 22/2 = 11. just explaining my logic although I don't know if it actually works that way. Besides, you're the DM it can work any way you damn well want it to!)
The point is, since he has access to the Protection domain, he can now cast Antimagic Field on himself after he's done roaring, bolstering his undead buddies and other nastiness, then walk into melee. Since he's 22 HD, he's got a lot going for him.
1.) Advanced a size category, lots of bonuses there (namely his str is now base 33)
2.)Magical beasts have Fighter BAB, so he starts at +22 to hit.
3.)A huge true ghoul (using this link you provided earlier ) does 2d6 base damage with his claws, +11 from his strength.
4.) 22d12 + 132 Hit points
5.) 10' reach
6.) Lots more feats to do nasty things with when he goes melee (improved disarm anyone? improved grab?)
7.) IMC, I would increase the DC of his roars because of his advancement. I was never able to decide what that should be, but enough to be at least some worry to characters worthy of facing him.
This also exploits the fact that the Defenders don't have any monks (that I'm aware of) and seem to pretty dependant on their spells and magic items. Tomtom might be a problem if you play with the "Psionics are different" house rule, because magical beast don't get better Will saves.
I would put his CR around 17 or so.
There are many other advantages which I can get into if you like the idea. I've got his full info (with some differences because, like I said, he's a lich in my version)
Take yourself a typical Androsphinx. Good magical beasts that cast cleric spells and can do roars that are normally only effective if they don't happen to have any allies around.
Now, add your true ghoul template to it and surround him with some undead associates. Voila: His associats are immune to his fear roar, his paralyzation roar, and his ability damage roar.
But for true rat bastardness, advance your evil ghoul androsphinx to 22 HD. He now casts as an 11th level cleric (normal andros are 12 HD and cast as 6th level clerics. 12/2 = 6. 22/2 = 11. just explaining my logic although I don't know if it actually works that way. Besides, you're the DM it can work any way you damn well want it to!)
The point is, since he has access to the Protection domain, he can now cast Antimagic Field on himself after he's done roaring, bolstering his undead buddies and other nastiness, then walk into melee. Since he's 22 HD, he's got a lot going for him.
1.) Advanced a size category, lots of bonuses there (namely his str is now base 33)
2.)Magical beasts have Fighter BAB, so he starts at +22 to hit.
3.)A huge true ghoul (using this link you provided earlier ) does 2d6 base damage with his claws, +11 from his strength.
4.) 22d12 + 132 Hit points
5.) 10' reach
6.) Lots more feats to do nasty things with when he goes melee (improved disarm anyone? improved grab?)
7.) IMC, I would increase the DC of his roars because of his advancement. I was never able to decide what that should be, but enough to be at least some worry to characters worthy of facing him.
This also exploits the fact that the Defenders don't have any monks (that I'm aware of) and seem to pretty dependant on their spells and magic items. Tomtom might be a problem if you play with the "Psionics are different" house rule, because magical beast don't get better Will saves.
I would put his CR around 17 or so.
There are many other advantages which I can get into if you like the idea. I've got his full info (with some differences because, like I said, he's a lich in my version)
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Hammerhead
Explorer
Anapster... are you insane? You do realize that this is the Defenders of Daybreak, right? I don't think that any two 15th level characters (no special races like Trillith, OC) could have a chance of beating a party with multiple chain lightnings, orbs, charm spells, destructions, mass heals, flame strikes, etc.
Ghoul monks might be a problem b/c ghouls are CE. Besides, how is no treasure a plus?
The fungus-shields gave me another idea. Could a variety of deadly fungi cling to a ghoul, like one of those fish that cleans shark's teeth, in a symbiotic relationship? Since ghouls are undead, thus immune to poison, some kind of poison producing thing could be deadly.
Maybe ghouls with monster parts grafted on? Like some hideous tentacle or crushing claw?
Since ghouls don't breathe, aqua ghouls? Like kuotoans (common in the underdark). Since adventurers have to waste lots of spells to function underwater, this could be a major advantage.
My idea fountain is drained, as of now.
Ghoul monks might be a problem b/c ghouls are CE. Besides, how is no treasure a plus?
The fungus-shields gave me another idea. Could a variety of deadly fungi cling to a ghoul, like one of those fish that cleans shark's teeth, in a symbiotic relationship? Since ghouls are undead, thus immune to poison, some kind of poison producing thing could be deadly.
Maybe ghouls with monster parts grafted on? Like some hideous tentacle or crushing claw?
Since ghouls don't breathe, aqua ghouls? Like kuotoans (common in the underdark). Since adventurers have to waste lots of spells to function underwater, this could be a major advantage.
My idea fountain is drained, as of now.
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