Challenging my high-lvl group (NPCs and monsters; my players shouldn't read this!)

[Pielorinho]

Wow, Forsaken--those are wonderful!
Daniel

 

[linnorm]

Suggestions for the third type:

• Ooze/Slime/Mold type creatures. An intelligent green slime would be fun, so would an intelligent gelatinous cube.
• Incorporeal devils. Something insubstantial and amorphous is always fun to throw at characters.
• Fiendish undead. This might be too much of a good thing considering the DoD's recent activities.

 

[Ashy]

Theme for the third group - My first thought is to make them VERY different from the flesh-shapers and the flies/maggot-types; and the farthest I can think of while still being repulsive is a group of devils based on Atropals - those little aborted godlings. VERY disturbing, but perhaps TOO disturbing, a whole group of devils based on evil creatures killed before they were even born? Other thoughts are to go insectile, but that clashes too much with the fly-themed ones, or perhaps...

THAT idea ROCKS! Combine these lil' nasties with a fair helping of chain-bound kytons/other chained devil ideas and inspirations from the Hellraiser movies as bodyguards/servants and you've got insured spine-tingling action!

 

[Knight Otu]

Some nice demons there, TFO!

As for devils... the only thing I can offer is Ishmadiel (3.0 stats), using my planar ruler template. While I posted a revised template, I haven't posted the updated rulers, but I should have updated stats for Ishmadiel somewhere...

Of course, Ishmadiel seems as if he had to be behind/part the third group, giving those likely a fire or steel theme. Certainly makes him harder to fit in.

 

[Someone]

If your players read Seplchrave´s story hour this could come up cliched, but the third group could be the old corruption-sadomaso-pain/pleasure type; like Slaanesh in Warhammer if you know something about the setting.

 

[The Amazing Dingo]

Oooo...Ivory King Stats...nice...

Any chance on seeing what Sobel is packing now? I know the old dragon's stats are back there, but I'm wondering if you might have added anything else to him other then the Ghoul Template.

As for the devils...

You have a group of shapechangers that I assume will be secretive. What about a group of demons that possess? There was a nice PrC in the Fiend Folio capable of such and could definately get through several usual magical detection methods. I'm sure the shapechangers will be going about things secretively as would the possessers. Could confuse the group into thinking that both groups were one group (while being confused that they seemed to be working towards two different goals). After a while it would become evident, but it could be fun for a while.

 

[MTR]

Let's assume that we have three cabals of devils working at cross purposes to one another. One group has a general "shapeshifter/malleable flesh" theme going for them, one is oriented towards flies, and I have no theme for the third group. I'd love it if people could offer thematic suggestions, detail the types of devils or creatures that might be in a cabal, and/or give some thought to the nobles of Hell who might be sponsoring them.

Perhaps this is tied to a certain marrage contract?

So you've got one group that will be sneaky and another that will be revolting; the third group should contrast. You could go with militaristic and organized - fighting in formation, coordinated spells, specific devils assigned particular tasks, commanders who give orders (and have them followed), opponents who are identified by military rank rather than racial type or personal name.

I also rather like the fallen celestial idea, so long as it fits your world. The painful beauty of an evil solar....

 

[DrZombie]

Tiiiiiiiiime is on my side....
I'll be buggered if I can remember the name of the movie , 's with Denzel Washington as the major good guy. He's trying to destroy Azazel. The trick is that Azazel can jump from body to body, taking over mortals without effort. Lemme google-fu for a second..... Yep, found it :"Fallen".
If you haven't seen it, check it out.
Anyway, when Azazel knows he's found out, he starts taunting DW. In the police station someone starts to sing "time is on my side", andbumps into someone, who then continues the song, and so on, completely freaking out the main character.
That would be a tough nut to crack. One or two devils like that, taking over people who don't realise they've been taken over. It's gonna be a while untill they find out what's going on, and how to stop it?

On the other hand, that might be a bit too close to the shapechanging theme I guess. Anyway, go see the movie. If you haven't allready.

I'll try to think of something else.

How "mature" is the group. I mean, we all know they're adults, and they're used to some pretty gory stufff, but there's a difference between gory and sick. I mean sick sick

 

[Piratecat]

On the other hand, that might be a bit too close to the shapechanging theme I guess. Anyway, go see the movie. If you haven't allready.

It's too close to a bad guy from Sagiro's campaign, unfortunately.

Good ideas here. I'm torn between the ooze-types - can oozes be lawful? - and the militaristic ones. I'm also considering a "celestial" faction that is, in fact, a front for a fallen angel.

 

[Zaruthustran]

It's too close to a bad guy from Sagiro's campaign, unfortunately.

Good ideas here. I'm torn between the ooze-types - can oozes be lawful? - and the militaristic ones. I'm also considering a "celestial" faction that is, in fact, a front for a fallen angel.

I like the idea of a "celestial" faction. You've got physical corruption covered by flies and shapechangers (I'd include oozes with shapechangers). Now you need moral corruption, so: liars.

Love the idea of the third faction posing as good guys. It'd be best it they've manipulated a group of actual, real Good celestials into acting on their behalf. Maybe this small and naive group could think that they're undercover, tricking the Devils. It's fun because the PCs may be suspicious at first, and put the initial contacts of the third group through a battery of tests and divinations--which will reveal the truth: they're capital-g-Good. Once tested, the PCs won't bother to test the later representatives of the third group...

Some fun powers of the third group would be Zone of Falsehood (only lies may be told in 60' radius), or Invert Magic (Inflicts become Cures, Fireballs deal cold damage, Haste becomes Slow, etc.), or Pain of Truth (telling truths = damage), or Deny Truth (deny/suppress one fundamental class ability of an opponent).

That last ability could take away a Paladin's immunity to fear, or a Fighter's feats, or sneak attack damage, or rage, or a mage's familiar. Stuff that is fundamental to a character, that would jeopardize the character's *essence*--would call into question the truth of that character. Don't take away mechanical stuff like spellcasting ability or BAB progression, but rather the flavor characteristics that gives the class definition.

These liars would also be big on illusions. Illusions are good for high level parties because there's no save until they're interacted with. So, you'll draw lots of spells and attacks. For extra fun mix illusions, shadow conjurations, and real opponents into the same battle.

The liars could also make good use of charms and memory wipes to completely alter the truths of the character's relations. Enemies become friends, friends become enemies, memories become unreliable. Mind-bending fun.

The neat thing about fighting these guys is that their lackeys and servants are all Good dupes who truly believe that the bad guys are good guys, and that the DoD are deluded heroes unwittingly acting as agents of evil. In time, the players may question their own motives.

That's when you hint that the third group *really is* a deep undercover Celestial force, manipulating devils into manipulating celestials in order to earn enough trust that a massive invasion may occur.

-z