Changeling Trick & Skilled Feint

[Kzach]

I'm assuming these work together but at the same time, I'm not sure if the changeling trick counts as the 'once per encounter' bluff to feint, so it could be they don't work together.

 

[twilsemail]

Skilled Feint: "[...]when you make a Bluff check to cause an enemy to grant combat advantage[...]"

Changeling Trick "You make a Bluff check opposed by the target's passive insight. If your check succeeds, you gain combat advantage against the target until the end of your next turn."


I can't see any reason they wouldn't work together. At least not as they're currently worded. Changelings are so gimped right now that it would just be plain mean to make them not work together.

 

[Ryujin]

Even if they worked together, you can't gain double combat advantage. The bouses don't stack. It does, however, give you two separate ways to generate combat advantage, with Bluff, in the same encounter.

 

[Kzach]

Even if they worked together, you can't gain double combat advantage. The bouses don't stack. It does, however, give you two separate ways to generate combat advantage, with Bluff, in the same encounter.

Well, that's part of the problem. Changeling Trick is a minor action, whereas a Bluff in combat is a standard action. So I can see people arguing that Changeling Trick is just giving you the same Bluff action as a minor instead of a standard.

 

[CovertOps]

Gain Combat Advantage: Once per combat encounter, you can try to gain combat advantage against an adjacent enemy by feinting. As a standard action, make a Bluff check opposed by the enemy’s passive Insight check. If you succeed, you gain combat advantage against the enemy until the end of your next turn.

Effect: You make a Bluff check opposed by the target’s passive Insight. If your check succeeds, you gain combat advantage against the target until the end of your next turn.

Benefit: You gain a +2 bonus to Bluff checks made to feint. In addition, when you make a Bluff check to cause an enemy to grant combat advantage to you and succeed, your Sneak Attack deals an extra die of damage to that enemy until the end of your next turn.

Changeling Trick grants you an ability. The Bluff skill grants you an ability. To say that use of one ability also uses up the other ability would be a DM levied nerf. You clearly have two ways per encounter to be granted combat advantage.

Now as to how they work together. Skilled Feint gives you a +2 bonus to your Bluff skill, but this bonus is clearly tied to the ability granted by the Bluff skill "Feint".

It also gives you an extra die of sneak attack damage, but this is only tied to "when you make a bluff check to cause an enemy to grant combat advantage". Since Feint and Changeling Trick both "make a Bluff check to cause an enemy to grant combat advantage to you" then this requirement is met and you can use this part of the feat with either ability. Really though I thought the Feint should have been a minor action because as is it's pretty useless having to give up an attack just to get CA. The once per encounter was limit enough, plus it gives Rogues something to do with their minor action. Either that or leave it as a standard and make it a Rogue class feature that they can use Feint as a minor action so you're not giving it to everyone. It would also be an interesting substitute as a replacement for +1 Rogues get with daggers so you could have a minor action Feint once per encounter as a minor action OR +1 with daggers.

 

[Ryujin]

Well, that's part of the problem. Changeling Trick is a minor action, whereas a Bluff in combat is a standard action. So I can see people arguing that Changeling Trick is just giving you the same Bluff action as a minor instead of a standard.

I would say that one is a racial power and the other is a specific benefit of skill use, making them separate entities.

*EDIT* To support my stance I offer the Dwarven ability to use Second Wind as a minor, contrasted against the way that Changeling Trick is listed as an encounter power.