Changes needed to make the role model work

[FadedC]

Three thoughts on the traps thing.....

1) I do not have the scout class on hand, but I had been told that it was able to search for and remove traps like a rogue. If the ranger "killed the scout and took his stuff" then it's possible he has that ability too.

2) However most traps were implied to be meant to function as part of a larger encounter. So rather then just the whirling blade that springs out of the wall we may be meant to have the whilrling blade at the same time as a group of bugbear archers pelt the party with arrows from the rafters....so the players have to deal with both at the same time. This would imply less emphasis on searching and removing and more emphasis on just dealing with the trap itself.

3) This is partially just speculation on my part, but I get the sense that healing in between encounters will be much easier to do and use up less resources then previous editions. This will make attrition typet traps where you just take some damage but are never seriously threatened with death even more pointless.

 

[chitzk0i]

To my knowledge, the only real indication of this is James Wyatt saying in an interview that they'd give you your class role "for free", but I don't know if that should taken as applying to every possible application of a class ability. After all, once you've fulfilled your role "for free", what do you do with your leftover action besides attack? I don't know if D&D's party structure works best when everyone's playing offense.

This article describes two different role-filling maneuvers that also allowed attacks: "Domna rushed a wolf and missed it, after shouting encouragement to her friends (providing a small bonus to them)" and "Domna used her tactical acumen to attack in such a way that the wolf she hit opened itself up to Robozcniek".

Fourth Edition leaders may sacrifice some of the effectiveness of their buffs in exchange for the ability to provide their buffs while attacking.

 

[hong]

Apropos of nothing, I am so playing a character called Robozcniek. Or maybe Roboczniek.

 

[Derren]

So what exactly is a "encounter trap"?
Does every trap now have a warning sign which prevents PCs from falling into the trap if they just look or a relatively easy to spot emergency lever everyone can find who disables the trap completely?

 

[Frostmarrow]

I think people are referring to the rogue ability Trapfinding that allows you to use Search for traps where the DC is 21 or higher. In 3.x only rogues can find such traps (without magic).

Oh please... Of course they are. You don't need Trapfinding as an ability. That's the point.

 

[Jhaelen]

I'd like to mention that the 4E roles 'defender, striker, leader, controller' are combat roles. They're meant to describe what a character of a given class is supposed to do in a combat situation.
They're not meant to imply anything about the characters' roles outside of combat.

So, I'd assume that things like utilty spells, trapfinding ability, and out-of-combat healing are probably not specifically linked to any of the combat roles.

About the trap discussion:
I hate traps. I especially hate traps in 3E. But I also hate trap-riddled 1E adventures like the Tomb of Campaign-Ending. It's simply not a style which agrees well with my preferred stlye of DMing/roleplaying. Please note, that I can understand and have no problems with others who like or prefer such a style.

Imho, encounter traps are a step in the right direction but I could still do without. Mainly because they typically don't make any kind of sense from a cost/effect ratio standpoint. It's an expremely 'pulpy' kind of cool to have room-sized traps with flamethrowers and giant whirling blades that no one in his right mind would ever create to actually ward off/protect from/kill intruders efficiently.

In a similar vein, I could go on endlessly, why I dislike the concept of gigantic multi-level dungeon complexes but since the game's (unfortunately!) called 'Dungeons & Dragons' and there's lots of old-school fans still around, I'll leave it at that (and it would be off-topic, anway)

 

[FireLance]

So what exactly is a "encounter trap"?

I had previously described an encounter trap as a trap that has been turned into a monster. A standard trap relies on being undetected for its effectiveness, and the challenge is to bypass it by finding it and disarming it before it is triggered, or, if it remains undetected and is triggered, to survive the damage it deals.

On the other hand, an encounter trap relies on being difficult to disarm for its effectiveness, with the added provisio that most, if not all, members of a typical adventuring party could contribute to "disarming" the trap. For example, an encounter trap could consist of spikes emerging from the floor to attack the party. The rogue could disable a 5' square area with a Disable Device check, or the fighter or barbarian could disable the trap by reading an action to sunder a spike that attacked him. Similarly, for a magical trap, the wizard or cleric could dispel the trap.

To put it another way, standard traps tend to be passive, and to put the lion's share of defeating the trap on the shoulders of the rogue. Encounter traps tend to be active, and to allow other characters to take action to negate or mitigate the effects of the trap.

Does every trap now have a warning sign which prevents PCs from falling into the trap if they just look or a relatively easy to spot emergency lever everyone can find who disables the trap completely?

If there is a warning sign, it will likely be in an obscure language, so that any character (and not necessarily just the rogue PC) who understands the language, succeeds at a Decipher Script check, or is able to cast comprehend languages can give the party an advantage in overcoming the trap. Similarly, if there is an emergency lever, it may require a few Strength checks to pull all the way down, so any character (again, not necessarily the rogue) with high Strength or who can cast telekinesis can help overcome the trap.

 

[WhatGravitas]

If there is a warning sign, it will likely be in an obscure language, so that any character (and not necessarily just the rogue PC) who understands the language, succeeds at a Decipher Script check, or is able to cast comprehend languages can give the party an advantage in overcoming the trap.

Note that the warning sign can be a different, classical trap. Use a pit trap, and put an encounter trap down there.

Use a minor "gotcha trap" as warning sign - a pit trap, where a skeleton lies, somehow crushed to paste and riddled with holes. And then you're players will realize there's another trap... which won't be a "gotcha trap".

Cheers, LT.

 

[Remathilis]

So what exactly is a "encounter trap"?
Does every trap now have a warning sign which prevents PCs from falling into the trap if they just look or a relatively easy to spot emergency lever everyone can find who disables the trap completely?

The trash compactor in A New Hope.
The rolling bolder in Indiana Jones.
Wizard's Chess in Harry Potter.
The hourglass trap in the D&D movie.

 

[Lonely Tylenol]

The trash compactor in A New Hope.

Which itself contained a combat encounter, to good effect.

The rolling bolder in Indiana Jones.

I'd love to see some rules built into the system for running away from stuff. Monsters, giant billiard balls, angry mobs, whatever. I wonder how portable Hot Pursuit will be to the new edition.