Level Up (A5E) Changes to Crit and auto-success

[UberAffe]

I think it would be nice if Nat 20's were divorced from the critical hit effect and it also would help clear up the language around using the d20.

A natural 20 on a d20 is an auto-success regardless of if you are making a skill check, save, or attack, with the caveat that you only roll when success is possible. If you try to pick up a mountain, success is not a possibility, so you don't roll.

A crit happens whenever your attack exceeds the targets defense by at least your crit threshold, which starts at 10.
Now the champion fighter feature just reduces the threshold to 9 and 8 at the respective levels.
Similarly the Assassin rogue's auto-crit feature makes more sense now that crits are truly divorced from the die roll. "When attacking a surprised target your crit threshold is 0."

This also opens up design space for more unique weapons and features (reduce/increase crit threshold).

 

[Tales and Chronicles]

I think it would be nice if Nat 20's were divorced from the critical hit effect and it also would help clear up the language around using the d20.

A natural 20 on a d20 is an auto-success regardless of if you are making a skill check, save, or attack, with the caveat that you only roll when success is possible. If you try to pick up a mountain, success is not a possibility, so you don't roll.

A crit happens whenever your attack exceeds the targets defense by at least your crit threshold, which starts at 10.
Now the champion fighter feature just reduces the threshold to 9 and 8 at the respective levels.
Similarly the Assassin rogue's auto-crit feature makes more sense now that crits are truly divorced from the die roll. "When attacking a surprised target your crit threshold is 0."

This also opens up design space for more unique weapons and features (reduce/increase crit threshold).

Not bad, I like it a lot.

 

[Charlaquin]

No, thank you. This just makes to-hit math more complicated and slows the game down for no real benefit in my opinion. I also think changing crit rules would go against the goal of complete 5e compatibility. If you like this as a house rule, by all means use it in your games, but I don’t think it would be a good choice for A5e.

 

[DND_Reborn]

Hmm... I'm not sure I like the whole "beat their AC by X amount" thing add it bring more math into it (not an issue for me, personally, but I know a LOT of players who would have problems with it...).

 

[robus]

I find a critical hit to be frequently disappointing as it just confers extra damage rather than shifting the balance of the encounter in some interesting way.

In the final battle of my last campaign one of the PCs had been banished back to their original plane and then later in the same round another PC landed a critical hit on the BBEG. Of course whenever a creature maintaining concentration takes damage they need to make a saving throw, but this creature had very high constitution so the chance of it failing was low. But because the PC had landed a critical hit I decided that the NPC should make it at disadvantage because of the severity of the blow. The save failed and the other PC was returned to the battle and huzzahs all around.

So, I would argue that a critical hit should also impose either some advantage for the attackers or disadvantage for the receivers in the current round to make it have more interesting weight. This would be alongside the critical hit damage of course.

 

[DND_Reborn]

So, I would argue that a critical hit should also impose either some advantage for the attackers or disadvantage for the receivers in the current round to make it have more interesting weight. This would be alongside the critical hit damage of course.

I agree, as long as it happens to the PCs as well.

IME most are bummed out enough about taking the big damage, so I don't know if extra bad stuff would make players happy or not.

 

[tetrasodium]

I agree, as long as it happens to the PCs as well.

IME most are bummed out enough about taking the big damage, so I don't know if extra bad stuff would make players happy or not.

I fond most crit/crit fail tables to be pretty lame in play, largely due to the tables themselves I think... Interesting status effects based on damage type perhaps? I think part of why crits don't really feel like a big deal in 5e is because it lacks the crit multiplier/high crit weapon properties of past editions & without weapons that improve the crit chance beyond 20 you don't really see the kind of reliable crit fishing builds operating like you used to even if you count the level 15 champion almost nobody actually plays.

 

[ccs]

No thanks. Crit thresholds (+/-) are one of the things I dislike in PF2.
Wasn't difficult, i just dong like it.
And in 5e? One of the complaints is often that monster ACs/target DCs are too low. You add Critting on +10? Youl have more crits than you do now.. Wich will just make short combats even shorter. How's that actually fun?

 

[Zsig]

It doesn't work that well due to Boundless Accuracy.

In PF2 it's still pretty easy to collect bonuses and modifiers from several sources and types, but in the current edition of D&D those are very scarce, so those thresholds will accomplish much less than what you are expecting.

 

[UberAffe]

No thanks. Crit thresholds (+/-) are one of the things I dislike in PF2.
Wasn't difficult, i just dong like it.
And in 5e? One of the complaints is often that monster ACs/target DCs are too low. You add Critting on +10? Youl have more crits than you do now.. Wich will just make short combats even shorter. How's that actually fun?

It would actually make important fights more difficult, because it would mean most people can't crit against the big bad, while fights that are supposed to be a breeze for the players actually are, because they have a more consistent high damage output. Also one of the most common complaints I hear is that combat takes too long, so I think combat duration being an issue is mostly a matter of who you talk to.