Changing Attacks of Opportunity

[The_Universe]

How would you change attacks of opportunity?

Me? I've always been sort of troubled by the idea that most attacks of opportunity not drawn by specific combat maneuvers (like grapple, trip, etc.) come from leaving an opponent's threatened area. That has always seemed backwards to me, and for a relatively long period of time, I ran things erroneously because my assumption didn't match up with the rules.

As someone leaves my threatened area, they are taking themselves out of my reach - a sword is only so long, etc. The default game assumption is that someone pulling away somehow presents an opportunity for me to strike at them without repercussion. But shouldn't it be the other way around? If someone is approaching quickly, the "opportunity" for a free attack becomes more obvious. As you move toward me, all I really would have to do is stick my sword out and chance you running into it - your incoming trajectory, by nature, affords me an opportunity to get a blow in before you can fully react.

Or, at the very least, that's what makes sense to me.

Does anyone else have this problem? Does my explanation make any sense? Is there another way you'd change attacks of opportunity?

 

[Dingleberry]

I've never had a problem with it. I figure you're paying more attention to where you're going than where you were, hence the opening when you leave a threatended space.

 

[Stormrunner]

I think the basic problem here is that the AoO "trumps" the triggering action (is resolved first). So if I provoke an AoO from you by trying to drink a potion, you could use the AoO to prevent me (by Sundering or Disarming the potion bottle, for instance).

If AoO was triggered by entering a threatened square, you would get:
1) Opponent starts to enter threatened square.
2) AoO goes off first, before he can enter.
3) Opponent hasn't entered the square yet, so is not within reach of your weapon. Oops.

Also, if an opponent is leaving your threatened area, either they're turning their back on you (which obviously would give you an "opening"), or they're backpedaling. With the exception of things like ballroom floors and packed-sand arenas, the average "flat" meadow/field/whatever actually has a lot of little bumps and dips. Try running backwards across an open field sometime. It's very easy to trip and fall. The retreating fighter has to divide his attention between his opponent, and where he is putting his feet. In order to avoid giving his opponent a free shot at him, he has to either move slowly and carefully (5' step), or concentrate totally on retreating without getting hit (Withdraw action).

 

[Lord Pendragon]

As someone leaves my threatened area, they are taking themselves out of my reach - a sword is only so long, etc. The default game assumption is that someone pulling away somehow presents an opportunity for me to strike at them without repercussion. But shouldn't it be the other way around?

Not iMO. The reason you get that AoO is because the person leaving your threatened area has to divert their attention from your darting blade to where they're going. Whereas when you're entering a threatened area, you can do so while also paying full attention to your target. It makes perfect sense to me that it's more difficult to disengage from a rapid exchange of blows than to initiate one.

If someone is approaching quickly, the "opportunity" for a free attack becomes more obvious. As you move toward me, all I really would have to do is stick my sword out and chance you running into it - your incoming trajectory, by nature, affords me an opportunity to get a blow in before you can fully react.

I don't see it that way at all. Unless I'm trying to grapple you (wherein you do get an AoO), I'm going to slow as I get close to you, and start making attacks of my own. I'm not hurling my body at you, or any other such thing. Again, unless I'm trying to get close enough to trip you, or grapple you, cases which do draw AoOs.

Does anyone else have this problem? Does my explanation make any sense? Is there another way you'd change attacks of opportunity?

I don't have this problem. Your explanation makes sense, but I feel is erroneous. I wouldn't change AoOs at all. I like how they interact with skills, in particular, such as Concentration, Tumble, etc.

 

[NuclearWookiee]

As you move toward me, all I really would have to do is stick my sword out and chance you running into it - your incoming trajectory, by nature, affords me an opportunity to get a blow in before you can fully react.

Your sword should be considered "in" the same 5' square that your character is in. If I run up to you to attack, I slow down and stop in the 5' square adjacent to you, not the 5' square that you're standing in (and the default location for your weapon). I think an attack has to assume a momentary departure of your weapon from your square and its immediate return. If, on the other hand, I were to execute an attack that causes me to move into your square (such as a bull rush) then it would make sense that I'd be met by your waiting sword tip (and in the case of a bull rush, you DO get AoO).

I really think the disengage rule supplied in the revised Star Wars D20 core book should be used in the other D20 variants as well. I agree that it seems like there should be an alternative way to leave a melee combat other than simply turning my back to you and running.

 

[ThirdWizard]

If you got an AoO from people entering a threatened square, you might end up with weird things like everyone staying 10' away from everyone else wiating for someone else to move beside them. It would make charges a horrible maneurver and ranged attack would become a much better choice, since noone actually wants to approach anyone else.

 

[Rel]

I don't think the AoO rules are counterintuitive. With regard to the whole "moving out of a threatened space" provocation, the issue is not that you're moving out of the threatened area but that you are dividing your attention on too many things at once.

If ALL you want to do is move out of the threatened area then you can Withdraw so that you don't take an AoO for the first space. This represents that the character in question is focused only on extricating himself from the combat and doing nothing else. If you attack (or take another standard action) on the same turn that you move, you've subdivided your attention a bit too much and take an AoO for your efforts.

I agree with others who say that provoking AoO's for moving into a threatened area would produce mechanics that run counter to what would be fun and interesting. I know that when I ran 3E for the first time in a one-off game, I got things mixed up in that particular way and the 1st level Monk with Combat Reflexes took down about 4 Goblins in a round when all they did was move up to attack him. Not fun. :\

 

[Psychic Warrior]

Shouldn't this be in House Rules?

I've never had much of a problem with AoO mainly becuase it works much like tackle zones in Blood Bowl (which I played a lot of back in the day). But for a simple and quick change Ihave seen people allow AoO's to occur whenever you do anything within an opponents reach other than attack or a specifically designated free action (ie speaking). Makes AoO's easy to adjudicate and doesn't really allow them to occur much more often.

 

[Rodrigo Istalindir]

I would make minor tweaks. For one, I'd make successful AoOs caused by attackers closing on enemies with reach weapons stop the attacker in his tracks. Would make spears and such actually useful.

 

[Psychic Warrior]

I would make minor tweaks. For one, I'd make successful AoOs caused by attackers closing on enemies with reach weapons stop the attacker in his tracks. Would make spears and such actually useful.

Not terribly realistic but, yes useful.