Changing Gods!

[arbados]

Hey All:
Although I transitioned from 3rd Edition D&D to Pathfinder quite some time ago the gods in my world have not changed. I still use 3rd Edition D&D gods. When I make a transition in game rules the world I run (home brewed) does not change! For example, when 3rd Edition D&D came out it was time for me to move away from all the deities listed in the Deity and Demigods Manual of 2nd Edition and start with Pelor, Heironeous, Obad-Hai, etc. In order for this to happen I had a world changing event that brought these new gods in and the old gods out. In very short order these new gods challenged the old gods and basically replaced them (there was much, much more story behind this, but that was the basic concept). This was a long process and my players identified and accepted the god-change as a world changing event within the game, not a game system change! It was actually pretty awesome as my players still talk about "the day the gods changed" as some very significant remembrance and it is also incorporated into my world's history!

So now we have moved to Pathfinder and there are all new gods (much better than the 3rd edition D&D gods I might add). I now, once again, have to transition these new gods into my game world seamlessly with it all making sense! I would never tell my players to simply choose a new god from the Pathfinder list because we changed game systems. To me that is not acceptable as it all has to make sense in the game. My game is continuous and so is the world. Things change for a reason and purpose!

I'm hoping YOU can give me some ideas and suggestions as to why and how this change of gods happens. It has to be different this time! What causes new gods to take the place of the old? Not just one, but the entire pantheon?! I did it before and it worked out wonderfully and is a memorable event. However, now I need a new idea and concept of equal magnitude and excitement! I'm prepared to have my players involved in it as well! That even makes it better (they are about 12th level).

Thoughts, ideas and suggestions are appreciated and I'm also curious if anyone else does rule changes/god changes as I do?

Thoughts and thanks?

John

 

[Wolf72]

I like my 3x gods! ... then again I love reading the Living Greyhawk Gazetteer, which has lots of info on the gods of Oerth/Greyhawk.

Maybe their contract is up ... and they didn't get an extension. In order to make it out safely, some of the gods need some mortal agents to set up their exit. Some gods are willing to go gracefully ... others are going to make it difficult for the new comers. There may be limited space on the white ship that's leaving ...

good luck.

 

[WayneLigon]

I guess I would do what worked before, in your case
For a home-brewed world, though, I have to ask why you didn't design your own deities? Then nothing would have to change unless you might count some fundamental game rule change like the domain changes from 3.5 to 5.0 or something.

 

[Vaslov]

The pantheons in your game could be more like seasons. Last time it looked like a big war/rebellion between divines to mortals, but in reality is was nothing more than the changing of the seasons. Now it is time for the seasons to change again. This also sets up that someday in the future it could change again. This point could be a lost secret which comes to light as other older forgotten pantheons are discovered.

 

[Razjah]

Mass conversions! Bernard Cornwell's Warlord Chronicles details a change in Britain as the Saxons invade, Rome has been gone, and the christian are moving in. They are converting many people, which leaves the old pagan druids with less power and the different kingdoms are fighting over resources and religions. You could do something similar where the Pathfinder gods are using mortals to convert to a new pantheon, weakening the old 3.5 gods.


War over Domains! In the heavens (or whatever realm for your world) the gods maintain control over domains through artifacts and works of legends (the god of the forge may control The Forge of Creation or something) the new gods are wrestling control over them. This could employ mortal agents as these artifacts end up in the mortal realm, or perhaps the artifacts are always in the mortal realm and the gods walk the earth. A god of fire has a lantern that gives the god power over fire, if a god of darkness steals it- it can plunge the world into a lasting darkness or bring forth a great ice age by extinguishing the lantern. Perhaps if The Anvil of Creation is stolen from a smithing god and used for a different purpose then certain metals cannot be crafted (no mithral or adamantine, for example).

Maybe the gods change as time flows, one era is at a close and the gods are moving on to different existences. Typicallyt this goes smoothly and without issue, but a god is holding on, or a new god has tried to ursurp a new domain. I'd go this route, playing out a great conflict and change between the gods is something that I would not enjoy as a player. But if it has been a year and half since summer was supposed to arrive, but it still has not... that is a campaign. Perhaps the god of death has stole a symbol of the god of the sun's power. The fire domain now rests with the god of death who is bringing about more death by cooling the world. Or the harvests are dwindling because the god of farming (erastil I think) has had a symbol of his power stolen by norgorber (gods of secrets/shadows/assassiny things) and keeps the 'secrets of the land' hidden away. Now the PCs have a focus for the campaign and the adventurers tie to it.

 

[Voadam]

New Names for the gods.

There are a lot of convergences, though some are better matches than others.

Let's see:

Boccob - Nethys
Corellon - Shelyn
St. Cuthbert - Erastil
Erythnul - Lamashtu
Farlanghan - Desna
Gruumsh - Rovagug
Heironeous - Iomedae
Hextor - Asmodeus, Gorum
Moradin - Torag
Nerull - Norgorber
Obad-Hai - Gozreh
Olidammara - Cayden Cailean
Pelor - Sarenrae
Wee Jaas - Pharasma
Vecna - Norgorber, Urgathoa

Abadar, Irori, Zon Kuthon you would have to go to the expanded 3e greyhawk pantheon to find good matches. Similarly for Garl Glittergold, Yondalla, Ehlonna, and Kord you have to go beyond the main 20 to find good matches in the Golarion pantheons.

 

[The Crimson Binome]

I'm hoping YOU can give me some ideas and suggestions as to why and how this change of gods happens. It has to be different this time! What causes new gods to take the place of the old? Not just one, but the entire pantheon?! I did it before and it worked out wonderfully and is a memorable event. However, now I need a new idea and concept of equal magnitude and excitement! I'm prepared to have my players involved in it as well! That even makes it better (they are about 12th level).

Keep in mind that many of the Pathfinder deities have origins that are specific to Golarion. For example, Norgorber ascended to godhood by passing the Test of the Starstone. If your world doesn't have a Starstone, then you need to re-write his history in order to fit, in which case it's arguably not even the same deity.

The most straight-forward choice would be a direct invasion, of your world, by inhabitants from Golarion. In any case, it would seem necessary that the new pantheon be native to that world, rather than arising anew in your own world.

 

[Lwaxy]

I always make custom gods for custom worlds. Or include them all.

Really, you do not need to swap gods when you swap a system. Kepp their portfolios and all. It will work just fine.

 

[WayneLigon]

Keep in mind that many of the Pathfinder deities have origins that are specific to Golarion. For example, Norgorber ascended to godhood by passing the Test of the Starstone. If your world doesn't have a Starstone, then you need to re-write his history in order to fit, in which case it's arguably not even the same deity.

99.99999% of the time, though, the history of a deity will matter not one whit to the PC. Really, the 'swap the names' system above works just as well, and results in minimal work on your part.

 

[Dog Moon]

What I would probably do is this:

The Old Gods left. No one knows why. Their clerics and paladins no longer receive any powers. They servants haven't heard from them. People look, but the Gods are nowhere to be found.

Then, create a task that needs to be done for each portfolio of the Golarion gods. I wouldn't start with anything super specific right away. But just have something to look at when you need it. So now people are competing in order to complete these tasks and basically become the new deities. If the PCs appear interested in these tasks or a potential candidate comes to them in search for their help, then you can detail those tasks in greater detail.

If the PCs do nothing then the Golarion Gods slowly fill in the pantheon and everything ends up like normal. However, while the PCs are adventuring and stuff, they should actually interact with these people. Then you get stories like "Yeah, I remember when Pharasma before Godhood. Such a jerk". Or the story of how your PC managed to do that one awesome thing despite the odds stacked against the PC and now is the herald of Pharasma.

Alternatively, this gives the PCs the chance to actually become Gods in the Golarion pantheon. It would be really cool for the PCs to deal with the other candidates and finally beat the others to become new Gods. So in this case for following campaigns, they would see their old PCs in place of several of the Gods. Instead of Pharasma, you now, for example, have Daramon who JUST managed to perform the required task for that portfolio before Pharasma could do it.

This could also be interesting because you could now introduce the villain Pharasma who, after being defeated in the race to Godhood and has created a cult and enjoys harassing the followers of Daramon. Can Pharasma and the cult be defeated and put an end to this menace once and for all?