• Welcome to this new upgrade of the site. We are now on a totally different software platform. Many things will be different, and bugs are expected. Certain areas (like downloads and reviews) will take longer to import. As always, please use the Meta Forum for site queries or bug reports. Note that we (the mods and admins) are also learning the new software.
  • The RSS feed for the news page has changed. Use this link. The old one displays the forums, not the news.

5E Changing rest periods

Xeviat

Explorer
I've been tempted, as a part of a greater project to convert most of the ability recovery in the game to short rest recovery, to have short rests be 8 hour rests in the wilderness and have long rests be 8 hour rests in settlements. But I do like the night's rest vs. weekend off idea too for stretching out rests for less combat focused games.
 

dnd4vr

Explorer
An interesting point on pacing from our table: we've had a dozen encounters before without taking a short rest and then only one or two before we needed another rest. The number of encounters isn't really the factor IMO but how quickly features are used up and what level of risk the players are willing to take.
 

Bawylie

Explorer
I want to look at a couple things on a modified rest schedule.

Among those are pace, travel, and rising/falling action.

If the group has few encounters between long rests, I prefer those encounters to be of hard or harder difficulty. If the group has many encounters per long rest, I prefer to mix it up with a variety of difficulties.

Personally, I’m a fan of the idea that a rest in the wilderness has only the benefit of a short rest and that a full long rest can only be accomplished in a sanctuary or other safe space free of immediate stressors.
 

5ekyu

Explorer
So, as a general rule, I am against just set values for key elements and restrictions. I prefer charsacter defined elements.

So, has anyone looked at say linking rests available to Con in some way that turned that stat into a significant player in the rest game?

For example...

Default: Long Rests are a week and Short rests are an 8 hour break in comfortable safe environment.

Exception: For each point of Con bonus, a character may take n the wild one 8 hour Long Rest and two 1 hour short rests.

So, this pretty much let's you at chargen pay for your "field endurance" capability.
 

DEFCON 1

Hero
So, as a general rule, I am against just set values for key elements and restrictions. I prefer charsacter defined elements.

So, has anyone looked at say linking rests available to Con in some way that turned that stat into a significant player in the rest game?

For example...

Default: Long Rests are a week and Short rests are an 8 hour break in comfortable safe environment.

Exception: For each point of Con bonus, a character may take n the wild one 8 hour Long Rest and two 1 hour short rests.

So, this pretty much let's you at chargen pay for your "field endurance" capability.
That seems like something that won't actually result in much benefit, as the group will end up just defaulting to the rest schedule of the weakest member.

Either that, or the ones who can't rest while others can will just always be the ones on watch the entire time since they have no reason to sleep.
 

Sadras

Explorer
I use a recharge mechanic, essentially a die roll vs DC to regain abilities without earning a level of exhaustion.
DC is dependent on whether you're recharging short/long rest powers, how many times you have recharged already and the no of days since your last long rest (24 hours).
The longer you travel without a full day's rest, the harder it becomes to recharge.
And a long rest cannot be out in the wilderness while looking over your back or engaging in night shifts - it needs to be in safe, tranquil, comfortable surrounds with adequate food and water.

Works for our table.
 

dnd4vr

Explorer
I use a recharge mechanic, essentially a die roll vs DC to regain abilities without earning a level of exhaustion.
DC is dependent on whether you're recharging short/long rest powers, how many times you have recharged already and the no of days since your last long rest (24 hours).
The longer you travel without a full day's rest, the harder it becomes to recharge.
And a long rest cannot be out in the wilderness while looking over your back or engaging in night shifts - it needs to be in safe, tranquil, comfortable surrounds with adequate food and water.

Works for our table.
Hmm... I never considered the recharge mechanic. Interesting idea since that is really what rests are for. Could you provide a more concrete example?
 

Sadras

Explorer
dnd4vr said:
Hmm... I never considered the recharge mechanic. Interesting idea since that is really what rests are for. Could you provide a more concrete example?


I've included our entire rest mechanic below. It requires 2-3 read through's to fully comprehend it.

The main thing to grasp is, PC's will no longer ask for a short rest to recharge their abilities, instead they will ask to recharge their short rest abilities. There is no x time waiting period, it is immediate.

To be fair the idea was not mine initially, but another poster's (@Ilbranteloth). I just modified it for our table and stole a little from another system.


[sblock]Rechargeable Rest Variant. This Resting variant uses a recovery check (1d20 + proficiency bonus + primary stat modifier) along with the exhaustion track as the mechanism for the recharging of short and long rest abilities. Adventurers can take a Short Rest in the midst of an adventuring day, and a Travel Rest or Long Rest to the end of the day.

Short Rest

Short rests act as breathers and are anywhere between 10-15 minutes in length. Hit Points can be regained by spending Hit Dice.


Travel Rest

A travel rest equates to a period of at least 8 hours in length, during which a character sleeps and may participate in light activity: reading, talking, eating, or standing watch for no more than 2 hours. If the rest is interrupted by a period of strenuous activity – at least 1 hour of walking, fighting, casting spells, or similar adventuring activity – the character must begin the rest again to gain any benefit from it.
A travel rest allows a character to remove 1 level of exhaustion. Should the character not be suffering from any levels of exhaustion, they may recover half their Hit Dice.


  • The DC for your recovery of short rest abilities is set to 5 plus 1 for each day since your long rest, and your next such check is made with advantage.
  • The DC for your recovery of long rest abilities is set to 10 plus 1 for each day since your last long rest and your next such check is made with advantage.

Long Rest

A long rest is 24 hours of uninterrupted rest with at any two or more requirements, reflected below, being in effect.


Safety from Threat of Attack - This could mean a thorough watch is posted – for example, a well-guarded Elf camp in [their forest] would allow a long rest. Arguably lying rolled in your cloak in a ditch just off the Forest Road, with your [Halfling] friend trying to stay awake and watch for Spiders, would not.

Comfort - Sleeping in a Dwarf hall carved from the heart of a mountain is a very different experience than sleeping in a Goblin tunnel. Comfort might mean a bed. It might mean good food. It might mean good company that allows for proper rest.

Tranquility - Some locations may simply provide an air of peace that means good rest is available to a company. This could be an ancient Elf ruin that has held onto some of its former glow of goodness. It could be a campsite next to a bright river that raises the spirits. This is very much in line with building the feeling of [the Setting], [if it is one] where characters can find peace in the wildest of places.

A long rest allows a character to regain all their abilities, hit points and Hit Dice as well as remove all levels of exhaustion. The DCs for recovery checks after recovering short and long rest abilities are set to 5 and 10, respectively.

Recovering Short and Long Rest Abilities


  • You may recover all short rest abilities or all long rest abilities at any time. However, when you do so you must make a recovery check. You make a separate check after recovering short rest and long rest abilities.
  • Each creature recovers abilities and makes recovery checks separately.
  • If you fail the recovery check, you suffer 1 level of exhaustion if you recovered short rest abilities or 3 levels of exhaustion if you recovered long rest abilities.
  • As noted above, immediately after a long rest, the DCs for recovery checks after recovering short rest and long rest abilities are 5 and 10, respectively.
  • Following each recovery check on the same day, the corresponding DC increases by 5 for short rest abilities and 10 for long rest abilities
  • When attempting to recharge your long rest abilities for the second time in one day, you suffer 1 level of exhaustion, whether the check is successful or not.
[/sblock]

Example:
A 5th level battlemaster with 16 STR wishes to recharge their short rest abilities (maneuvers). +6 on the roll (+3 for proficiency and +3 for STR modifier)
It is his first short rest ability recharge since his Long Rest. Therefore he has Advantage on the roll.
It has been 3 days since his Long Rest. DC 5+3=8

DC 8, +6 on the roll with Advantage.

If he wishes to recharge his short rest abilities that same day, the DC will increase by 5. i.e. DC 13.
If he wishes to recharge his short rest abilities the very next day, the DC will be 9 (5 base + 4 days since Long Rest).

Failure on a roll does not negate the recharge (i.e. so he still regains his maneuvers), but he will have gained 1 level of exhaustion.
 
Last edited:

5ekyu

Explorer
That seems like something that won't actually result in much benefit, as the group will end up just defaulting to the rest schedule of the weakest member.

Either that, or the ones who can't rest while others can will just always be the ones on watch the entire time since they have no reason to sleep.
Uh, the penalties for not sleeping etc still apply - no changes there - the difference is the higher Con characters can get the benefits of short and long rests more often and in more adverse circumstances.

I mean, when I read some folks requiring a week for long rest, I didnt think they meant the PCs only sleep during thosexweeks, did you?
 

Sadras

Explorer
So, has anyone looked at say linking rests available to Con in some way that turned that stat into a significant player in the rest game? ...(snip)... So, this pretty much let's you at chargen pay for your "field endurance" capability.
I find this is already done at class level - so a Battlemaster who is all short rest abilities can go NOVA many more times than your wizard. I wouldn't want to compound that with an additional high CON requirement (CON already has the hp thing going for it).

As an aside: That is one of the primary reasons why my recharge rest variant uses one's primary ability rather than CON.
 

Blue

Orcus on a bad day
This Resting variant uses a recovery check (1d20 + proficiency bonus + primary stat modifier) along with the exhaustion track as the mechanism for the recharging of short and long rest abilities.
Questions
Determining ability score?
1. How do you determine ability score to use? Like can weapon wielders pick either STR or DEX? Or does an archer fighter need STR? How about unusual builds, like a DEX based barbarian? Could a paladin choose CHR or STR or is it set to one?

Spellcasting
2. Is each spell slot a separate roll, or is "spellcasting" a single check?

Features with uses
3. For features with uses or charges, is the recovery for all or each? Recovering Ki for a Monk, or Superiority dice for a Battlemaster fighter.

Racial features
4. How do you recover racial features like the Half Orc's Relentless Endurance? If it's a roll, what ability score does it use?

Concerns
Short Rests same Day
5. Short rests classes are balanced against other classes by being able to be recovered several times in a day. Wouldn't increasing the DC for mutliple checks on the same day really hurt classes like Warlock?

Forcing ASIs
6. This seems to penalize any player who doesn't raise their character's primary ability score at every chance they can until it's maxed. If a player takes a feat or raises something else, not only are they missing out on, say, +1 to hit and +1 to damage for every single attack, but also have a harder time recovering their abilities penalizing them further.

Multiclassing
7. Also, how does it work for multiclassing? A character with multiple classes with different prime abilities scores is already at a disadvantage, is this an additional penalty that they labor that they recover one or both classes slower?

8. If I'm a cleric/wizard, my spell slots are from a combination of all of my caster levels. What ability score do I use?
 

Sadras

Explorer
Determining ability score?
1. How do you determine ability score to use? Like can weapon wielders pick either STR or DEX? Or does an archer fighter need STR? How about unusual builds, like a DEX based barbarian? Could a paladin choose CHR or STR or is it set to one
Whichever ability your character most identifies with. So if you're a DEX fighter/barbarian, then I'd allow you to use your DEX. Ideally, the person selects their higher stat and then sticks with it unless there is a good enough argument to have it changed later on in the character's life.
It is not supposed to be a gotcha, hence I also decided against using CON, which was the obvious choice having it tying into exhaustion, which would have screwed some classes.

Spellcasting
2. Is each spell slot a separate roll, or is "spellcasting" a single check?
Sadly it is not that granular. A long rest recharge, recharges ALL long rest abilities (class, racial or otherwise), similarly a short rest recharge will recharge ALL the short rest abilities. So the player needs to be careful when to call for a check.

Features with uses
3. For features with uses or charges, is the recovery for all or each? Recovering Ki for a Monk, or Superiority dice for a Battlemaster fighter.
A single short rest recharge refreshes a Battlemaster's manuevers, action surge and second wind.
If you activate the SR recharge you refresh them all in one go (it is like having a short rest without the hour constraint).


Racial features
4. How do you recover racial features like the Half Orc's Relentless Endurance? If it's a roll, what ability score does it use?
It is important to mention that after a proper Long Rest all short rest abilities and long rest abilities are immediately refreshed, there is no roll.

When the PC orc does a Long Rest recharge he refreshes all long rest abilities whether they be class features and/or racial abilities/features. So an orc wizard would refresh spellcasting and relentless endurance.

Concerns
Short Rests same Day
5. Short rests classes are balanced against other classes by being able to be recovered several times in a day. Wouldn't increasing the DC for mutliple checks on the same day really hurt classes like Warlock?
Depends. This is where it comes down to your table, the level of your characters and the average difficulty of your encounters. I don't run 6-8 encounters per day, I do not find that practical and I find it a tremendous waste of roleplaying time. I wanted a system that works both for outdoor, city and dungeon sessions without having to change/worry about resting periods and that made some sort of sense to me.

Generally I might have 2-4 combat encounters in one day and realistically, the PCs will automake the first short rest recharge (DC 5 base). If your PCs are short resting between every encounter because every encounter is rated DEADLY well then that is different. If your PCs are higher level they can risk pushing themselves a little further without too many short rests, plus their bonus to rolling is higher (+8 usually) and then there is Inspiration as well.
My experience with this is having two groups, an 11th level party and a now 6th level party - no issues so far, and I have been running this for the better part of a year.

Furthermore travel and time are a big part at our table, so the recharge DC can rack up if characters are trying to make haste without the 24-Long Rest. My players tend to be cautious, ensuring they Long Rest in the major settlements between their travels.

Forcing ASIs
6. This seems to penalize any player who doesn't raise their character's primary ability score at every chance they can until it's maxed. If a player takes a feat or raises something else, not only are they missing out on, say, +1 to hit and +1 to damage for every single attack, but also have a harder time recovering their abilities penalizing them further.

Multiclassing
7. Also, how does it work for multiclassing? A character with multiple classes with different prime abilities scores is already at a disadvantage, is this an additional penalty that they labor that they recover one or both classes slower?
Fair points.

All I can say is (a) there are numerous creative ways of restoring/refreshing abilities that might not demand a roll or numerous creative ways of assisting such rolls and (b) it is not supposed to be a gotcha so any ability you most identify with may be used. But yes, your observations are valid.

The easiest way to do 'fix' these concerns (6-7), which I must add I will be doing, since it makes this system even better by catering to more styles (so thank you for the time and effort put into analyzing the system and providing insight!), is to decouple the roll from abilities and instead base it solely on level (character experience).

Use Double Proficiency or Double Proficiency +1 as the modifier.

1st Level: +4 or +5
5th Level: +6 or +7
9th Level: +8 or +9
13th Level: +10 or +11*
17th Level: +12 or +13

* It is at this point that it starts differing from the ability system, but I do not believe it is too much of a concern.
+5 due to level +5 due to ability = +10 max.

8. If I'm a cleric/wizard, my spell slots are from a combination of all of my caster levels. What ability score do I use
In your (8) with your wizard/cleric example, all abilities would be recharged no matter which class, similarly as they do with your PHB short rest and long rest. I mean you could try break it up between classes and make it more granular between multiple short rests recharges but that would get messy/complicated and you'd have the racial abilities mucking things up.
 
Last edited:

Advertisement

Top