Changing Saving Throws (Will)

[ThoughtBubble]

Frankly, I can see your point, but I find the change unnecessarry, and a bit arbitrary. If charisma isn't seeing enough use in your game, it probablly is more of an issue with the style of GMing than anything else. Charsima affects just about everything involving dealing with other people. I think saying it has little use implies you play a straight dungeoneering campaign. In my campaign, the 18 cha sorcerer glides through social interactions with ease, negotiates better pay, and will soon be invited into the upper eschelons of society. In a couple of weeks, he may just talk his way into a higher military rank than the rest of the party has. I don't see that as at all useless, or needing a boost.

Also, I think you're reading a bit much into what each stat is supposed to be. The problem is that I can raise this arguement for a whole lot of stuff. To argue the other side then, since wisdom represents things like awareness, why not add it to social interaction rolls? After all, if you're more aware of what someone's feeling, you're more able to speak in ways that will get the reaction you want. Wisdom should be added to attack rolls too because you're more aware of what your opponent will do. Dexterity should be added when you try to move something heavy because it represents a coordiated effort of all your muscles, and dexterity represents coordiation.


If you do get your GM to implement it, what are you going to give the people with high wisdom scores to make up for it? There's nothing quite like a lopsided change to make for potentially unhappy players.

And finally, make sure everyone knows beforehand, because there are expectations for the game, including wisdom bonuses going to will.

 

[Plane Sailing]

In my campaign, the 18 cha sorcerer glides through social interactions with ease, negotiates better pay, and will soon be invited into the upper eschelons of society. In a couple of weeks, he may just talk his way into a higher military rank than the rest of the party has. I don't see that as at all useless, or needing a boost.

I bet he hates spending most of skill points cross-class in diplomacy - or is he just relying on his +4 bonus for Cha? Because very soon any Cleric, Paladin, Bard, Rogue or Monk will be out-negotiating him with ease, because they all have diplomacy as a class skill.

The point is, that Cha has no general use outside it's skill bonus, and the social skills are ones which are more difficult to separate from role playing than, say, climbing or tumbling. That is where it becomes a second rate attribute in many peoples opinion.

Cheers

 

[SylverFlame]

Thought Bubble, I see your point. As such, I ask you: What would be a balanced trade off?

 

[ThoughtBubble]

I bet he hates spending most of skill points cross-class in diplomacy - or is he just relying on his +4 bonus for Cha? Because very soon any Cleric, Paladin, Bard, Rogue or Monk will be out-negotiating him with ease, because they all have diplomacy as a class skill.

The point is, that Cha has no general use outside it's skill bonus, and the social skills are ones which are more difficult to separate from role playing than, say, climbing or tumbling. That is where it becomes a second rate attribute in many peoples opinion.

Cheers

You know, I hadn't even realized that it's a cross class skill. I think he does well mostly due to his bonus and a point here or there that gets put into it.

Yes, social skills are more difficult to separate, but it's not undoable. Though your point is made. I can see how Cha could be percieved as a second rate attribute.

Sylver, I'm probablly the wrong guy to be asking about a balanced trade off. Mostly, I'd say try to find something that fits what your definition of wisdom is. If you're starting up a campaign, I'm sure your arguements should be enough.

Sorry I can't be more help on this one.