Changing the rules (d20 Modern)

[Vigilance]

Just like the subject says: if you could change any one thing, what would be the FIRST thing to go?

Also, if there was one element of the game you absolutely HAD to keep, what that be?

Thanks.

Chuck

 

[Roudi]

First off, the keep: the d20 Modern class structure. I love it's progression from vague concept to focused concept and encourages multiclassing to reach this end.

If I could change one thing, it would be fixed ability progression for advanced classes. Let prestige classes (the most focused class tier) have the fized progressions: I think advanced classes should still utilize the talent system. They should have their own trees, and they should probably mix talent choices with fixed abilities/bonus feats less often than basic classes. But still, I think advanced classes should have a little more versatility.

 

[Aussiegamer]

Construction rules for vehicles.

 

[broghammerj]

The way gunplay works in D20 modern. With shooting, I've always had a problem with increasing number of attacks as you get higher levels. A low level street thug should be able to pull the trigger on his pistol as fast as a hardened veteran police officer with military experience. The difference, the veteran cop is more likely to put 3 bullets in your chest. Cover also bogs the game way down with modifier calculations.

That's why we came up with a home brewed bastardized version of D20 modern and Twilight 2000. The more bullets you fire, the more recoil effects your to hit number. If you roll a "hit", then you roll a location. Say the above cop is standing behind a waist high cement wall and the thug rolls a hit to the right leg. No injury occurs as the bullet strikes the wall.

 

[Aussiegamer]

The way gunplay works in D20 modern. With shooting, I've always had a problem with increasing number of attacks as you get higher levels. A low level street thug should be able to pull the trigger on his pistol as fast as a hardened veteran police officer with military experience. The difference, the veteran cop is more likely to put 3 bullets in your chest. Cover also bogs the game way down with modifier calculations.

the attack used to mean, you had that number of chances to hit only that many times per round. But when you add in range and account for each bullet then that meaning gets lost.

By using feats (Double tap etc) and using the newer 2 SA per round idea for SW, then no matter what level you are you still can have only 2 attacks per round.

So that gets some what removed.

That's why we came up with a home brewed bastardized version of D20 modern and Twilight 2000. The more bullets you fire, the more recoil effects your to hit number.

Yep this is a good way to control say 2 burst attacks per round as well.

If you roll a "hit", then you roll a location. Say the above cop is standing behind a waist high cement wall and the thug rolls a hit to the right leg. No injury occurs as the bullet strikes the wall.

In a simple system yes this works, but then some things are better at protecting you than other...I use a DR of the material, to act like armour, to reduce the damage from the attack.

 

[Ranger REG]

That's why we came up with a home brewed bastardized version of D20 modern and Twilight 2000. The more bullets you fire, the more recoil effects your to hit number. If you roll a "hit", then you roll a location. Say the above cop is standing behind a waist high cement wall and the thug rolls a hit to the right leg. No injury occurs as the bullet strikes the wall.

Not really fond of adding more values to the weapon stats, or instituting the recoil rule for that matter.

 

[broghammerj]

In a simple system yes this works, but then some things are better at protecting you than other...I use a DR of the material, to act like armour, to reduce the damage from the attack.

Simplicity was what we were going for. I had never thought of adding DR. Not sure why, just never thought of it. It would increase complexity a bit but also add realism. We used to just let the DM decide what occurred. Concrete wall....no penetration. Wimpy plywood table....why did I take cover again?

 

[broghammerj]

Not really fond of adding more values to the weapon stats, or the instituting the recoil rule for that matter.

Our recoil didn't require new weapons stats. For each bullet fired past the first a -2 penalty occurred. 1st- no penalty, 2nd: -2, 3rd: -4, etc. Double tap allowed two bullets fired with no penalty. A burst shot was 3-5 bullets fired depending on burst setting of a specific weapon. An overall -2 penalty was applied to hit. Then roll d3 to determine how many bullets strike the target.

Not saying it's for everyone. We just thought it made gunplay more realistic. At low leverls, we conceptually couldn't wrap our head around the idea of 1 bullet fired per person in a 6 second combat round. It sort of seemed like an old west shootout in slow motion. The amount of lead flying in combat is more dependent of the weapon and not the man. Considering how we felt about low level gunplay....it seemed even more wonky at high levels when a character could somehow pull the trigger at a much faster pace.

Sorry to derail Chuck's thread a bit.

PS Chuck- Keep the attribute based classes. If only DND would make the switch!

 

[GlassJaw]

Just like the subject says: if you could change any one thing, what would be the FIRST thing to go?

I'd replace the book with either Grim Tales or Spycraft.

 

[broghammerj]

I'd replace the book with either Grim Tales or Spycraft.

Your constant drum beating of Grim Tales again reminds me that I really need to buy that book