D&D 5E Changing the sleep spell? (and hypnotic pattern too)

[Quickleaf]

What if you flipped it? Rather than working best on creatures at low hit points, the spell only worked on creatures at full hit points? Creatures that are currently in pain will not succumb to the subtle drowsiness of the magic. Sort of like how creatures in combat save at advantage against charm person.

EDIT: I see you're thinking along the lines of charm person already.

Yep, great minds

That's an interesting idea! I think it works fine for most cases of PCs casting against monsters/NPCs (since the main vector for monsters suffering damage is usually the PCs). But it doesn't work so well for monsters/NPCs casting sleep against PCs, since PCs can have scrapes and scratches and bruises from other adventuring scenarios.

I'll think about it.

Looking over my first try, I can already see that the 3 saves thing I borrowed works for single-target spell like flesh to stone, but for a multi-target spell like sleep is going to be a pain-in-the butt amount of dice rolling. And more saving throws multiplied by a group of monsters mean that just by sheer probability putting a group of weak monsters to sleep has lower odds. Probably not ideal.

 

[FormerlyHemlock]

I don't see problems with hypnotic pattern, it prevents affected creatures from taking moving, taking actions or reactions, but isn't full unconsciousness, so no advantage on attacks or auto crits. Also any damage taken ends the spell for affected creature. So its an highly effective crowd control/stun, but doesn't leave the targets entirely defenceless.

I recommend grapple/proning the targets before you hit them, so that when they wake up they are already heavily-disadvantaged.

 

[transtemporal]

Here's my first try...

[SECTION]
Sleep (Quickleaf's "fairytale" rewrite)

Level: 1
Casting time: 1 Action
Range: 100 feet
Components: V, S, M (a pinch of fine sand, rose petals, or a cricket)
Duration: 1 minute, special

This spell sends creatures into a magical slumber. All creatures within 20 feet of a point you choose within range must make a Wisdom saving throw. If you and your companions are fighting a creature in the spell's area of effect, it has advantage on its save. A creature failing its saving throw is overcome by drowsiness, suffering disadvantage on any initiative checks it makes, and having to fight to keep its eyes open.

A creature made drowsy by this spell must make another Wisdom saving throw at the end of each of its turns. If it successfully saves against this spell three times, the spell ends. If it fails saves three times, it falls unconscious until the spell ends, the sleeper takes damage, or someone uses an action to shake or slap the sleeper awake. The successes and failures don’t need to be consecutive; keep track of both until the target collects three of a kind.

When the spell ends, the creature does not necessarily realize you attempted to put it to sleep magically.

At higher levels. When you cast this spell using a spell slot of 2nd level or higher, for each spell slot above 1st level you may either increase the area of effect by 10 feet (i.e. all creatures within 30 feet of a point you choose for a 2nd level slot) or increase the duration. With a 2nd level slot, the duration increases to 10 minutes. With a 3rd level slot, the duration increases to 1 hour. With a 4th level slot, the duration increases to 8 hours. With a 5th level slot, the duration increases to 1 day.
With a 6th level or higher spell slot, the spell no longer ends on a creature if it takes damage or someone uses an action to shake or slap the creature awake; instead, remove curse awakens the sleeping creature. With a 6th level slot, the duration increases to 1 week. With a 7th level slot, the duration increases to 1 month. With an 8th level slot, the duration increases to one season. With a 9th level slot, the duration changes to until a trigger you define occurs.
[/SECTION]

Yeah I like it. Thematically, its much more in line with how a sleep spell should probably work. I dunno about the higher level spell slots though. Any time the higher level slot text is longer than the actual spell, it's probably too complicated!

 

[auburn2]

Thus, a savvy party expecting to encounter sleep magic could carry around a basket full of 1 hit point chickens or mice (or whatever) and mostly negate sleep magic used against them. Which is totally ridiculous... The greatest challenge to a mighty sorceress putting a peasant family to sleep would be dealing with the chickens and goats.
[/SECTION]

Not totally redicuous but brilliant! And quite frankly a lot more likely for the parties enemies.

First on parties: Carrying around animals on adventure would be a pain in the arse but doable if your low level characters know they are going to battle with a wizard, it might give them one round up on the bad guy although more than likely he will choose a new spell. I would reward such ingenuity as it is not really exploiting the rules, it is how it is designed to work. No different than bringing some caltrops to slow the guards in the halway before you grab the princess and slide down the bedsheets from the tower window while rescuing her from the evil Duke .... or arranging ahead of time to have an "innocent shephard" with a herd of goats crossing the road to slow the guards chasing your getaway carriage. In this case it just uses a game mechanic based on the "scientific properties" of the fantasy world instead of a "real world" mechanic. Carrying spare animals around as normal gear "just in case" would get rather burdensome. Especially since I can count on one hand the number of times the party has been slapped (either as DM or player). A AOE spell or trap that kills my spare chickens is far more likely.

The enemy: Foes at a guard station could and would use it to prevent being "murdered in their sleep", Again in the real world we have dogs and such with security guards. This is because of their heightened senses, and we have canaries in mines to detect gas leaks by taking the hit and dying before the miners. This is because there are occasionally poision gas leaks in mines. If mages with sleep spells were a real thing I guarantee we would have sacrificial mice with the secret service agents guarding Trump.

Also even if you think it is campy to have animals just to take the sleep hit, it is very likely that your orcs brought a couple squirels with them to guard duty at the cave entrance to cook for lunch. Also anywhere in the bandit hideout where there is contraband there is probably livestock (chickens and such) they stole from the victims as well ... not to mention the livestock they have to eat for themselves.

The main problem with your rewrite is almost no one will ever actually go to sleep, especially in a battle. How many rounds on average will it take an enemy to fail a save with advantage 4 times? Most battles are over in 4 rounds so even enemies with really bad saves will still die before they fall asleep. If it was a big battle with a lot of packed enemies maybe but even then you would be casting a spell in round 1 with a big payoff that happens only in rounds 4, 5 and 6 (any monster that makes it to round 7 will have made 3 saves) and only then to really unlucky monsters. I would suggest a different name for your rewrite - change the name to "drowsy" as that is really the main effect with the sleep being a bonus affect essentially. To be clear it is a good spell. I think it is well balanced and is actually better than the original against high-level monsters but it isn't doing what the original spell of the namesake was intended to do.

 

[Tony Vargas]

The main problem with your rewrite is almost no one will ever actually go to sleep, especially in a battle.

I think the idea is that it's meant to be a subtle spell that you wouldn't use in battle, even as an opener, but to avoid battle entirely and accomplish some other objective while your victims sleep. But it does seem like it's unlikely to put a whole group to sleep very often, unlike the classic spells which was low-HD enemies, no save. Maybe the situation in which it's cast can be brought into it? No save for unsuspecting victims in a situation where they might fall asleep anyway? As long as you keep away from them, for instance - try to creep up to stab them and they get a save?

Another old sleep-related bit of magic was the Hand of Glory, which would keep everyone in a house asleep while you burgled it. Ritual Casting of Sleep, perhaps?

 

[auburn2]

I think the idea is that it's meant to be a subtle spell that you wouldn't use in battle, even as an opener, but to avoid battle entirely and accomplish some other objective while your victims sleep.

I don't think it would work here either. At least not against intelligent monsters unless they are in a bedroom or other unique circumstance. As soon as the first guy fails 4 saves the jig is up and the rest of them know something is on. The rest immediately know something is up and perhaps even wake up the guy that failed 3 in a row and fell down on round 4. Then a different group falls over in round 5, another group in round 6. By round 7 or 8 they are all woken up by those that didn't fail and have weapons out and ready for a fight.

 

[jgsugden]

Sleep isn't sleep. It is temporary damage. It deals 5d8 hp damage that can be removed with an action. If you think about it that way, a related mechanic jumps out to me...

This spell afflicts enemies with waves of drowsiness. Creatures within the area of the spell take 3d8 temporary damage. If this temporary damage is enough to bring the creature to zero hit points, they fall into a slumber rather than dying. If not, they gain three levels of temporary exhaustion exhaustion instead. Such a creature has disavantage on ability checks, moves at half speed, and has disadvantage on attack rolls and saving thriows. These levels of temporary exhaustion do not stack with real exhaustion. Any creature may use an action to shake a creature under this effect to end the effect. Damage also ends the effect. "