Changling Warshaper?

[Bront]

Can a changeling qualify as a Warshaper or is their disguise self ability not enough?

 

[sukael]

Yes--they have the shapechanger subtype.

Note--Changeling + Warshaper = TEH BROKEN UBERCHARACTER.

 

[Eltern]

Note--Changeling + Warshaper = TEH BROKEN UBERCHARACTER.

Why?

 

[Bront]

I asked because they have Minor shape change, not full blown shape change (I guess shifters might be allowed in this class as well).

The reason it seems odd/powerful to me is that changelings can stay in one form indefinately, and they can gain +4 str and con while changed at 3rd level. Seemed a bit odd.

 

[CrazyDrake]

you are correct, hence the "UBERCHARACTER" remark.

 

[Saeviomagy]

Why?

Because people go "Oh my god, this character gets +4 to two stats, fast healing and immunity to crits" and don't think to compare it with, say, spellcasting, full attack progression, uncanny dodge etc etc. They also tend to forget that wands of cure light wounds exist.

 

[Jdvn1]

They don't get much else, though. They get really good at shaping, but it doesn't make them as good a fighter as, say, Fighter, and it doesn't help them with casting nor sneaking nor does it give special abilities... it's good, but it's not as strong as you'd think.

 

[Bront]

Given a doppleganger can take it (as can anyone who can cast Polymorph Self), perhaps it's not as bad as it could be.

 

[Diirk]

They don't get much else, though. They get really good at shaping, but it doesn't make them as good a fighter as, say, Fighter, and it doesn't help them with casting nor sneaking nor does it give special abilities... it's good, but it's not as strong as you'd think.

I kinda disagree.. the only prerequisites for entering the class are BAB +4 and some form of shapechanging, so you can qualify as say... a Changeling Fighter 4. If you only take 4 levels of Warshaper, you only lose 1 BAB, 4 hp and 2 feats compared to a straight fighter, but you get immunity to stuns and crits, natural weapons, +4 to 2 stats (which more than makes up for the BAB and hp loss), reach and fast healing.

Even if you don't use the natural weapons, its pretty much better than a straight fighter in every way. If you don't care about the fast healing 2, you could even just take 3 levels of warshaper instead of 4 for more efficient save progression (if you aren't using fractional advancement)

Side note: uh.. wth is up with the saves for the warshaper? 2nd level should be 3/0/0, not 3/1/1 as indicated

 

[Jdvn1]

So you're saying it's too front-loaded? Over the whole PrC, you lose 2 BAB, another hp, and you get an ability that isn't too useful for most.

I don't know if you've actually played the class, but the fast healing 2 doesn't help at all. The immunity to stuns and crits is nice, as are the stat and damage adjustments and reach. The fast healing 2 just means you auto-stabilize and you dont have to be cured outside of battle. In the games I've played, doesn't come in handy.