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4E Character Building

hornedturtle

Villager
Hello all,
I am planning to import 354b from 3.5 into 4 edition. Unfortunately I know very little about fourth edition, I have the core books but haven't hand built a character or even played a session of fourth. So my question is what class most closely matches a psion shaper? Specifically I had been planning on him picking up Repair Construct at 3rd level for self healing. Any thoughts are most welcome.
 

stonegod

Spawn of Khyber/LEB Judge
Hello all,
I am planning to import 354b from 3.5 into 4 edition. Unfortunately I know very little about fourth edition, I have the core books but haven't hand built a character or even played a session of fourth. So my question is what class most closely matches a psion shaper? Specifically I had been planning on him picking up Repair Construct at 3rd level for self healing. Any thoughts are most welcome.
Healing warforged is nowhere near as difficult as it was in 3.5. First, they have some ability to heal themselves (healing surges et al) and a built in power that gives them some hp when bloodied as well. So no need for 'repair construct' (which doesn't exist anymore)

Edit: And they heal the same as everyone else (so healing magic works just fine on them).

As for a shaper... D&D Interactive (DDI) has a preview of the psion from PH3, but its telepath only right now. So you likely don't have access and it isn't really in the spirit of shaper. The psion fits the basic "psionic" feel 354b has, but not the class.

Your other bet is to determine what role 354b best fit and wrap a class around him with a bit of different fluff. For example, if he was more of a controller that manipulated the battle field, go wizard and just pretend he's psionic. If it was more about the damage output, consider warlock (with a similar justification).

Psionics, as a whole, will be part of PH3, so reflavoring is your best bet for now.
 

ukingsken

Villager
I'm in agreement with Stonegod here. If you were previously a shaper, the telepath preview they have going so far isn't really what you're looking for. As for reflavoring thats up to you, maybe wizard?

Personally I'd probably pick through the 4E books and make a new character, maybe save the import for your second character at a later date when all the psion classes have been released? But thats just my own personal distaste for reflavoring a character I already to concepted to squeeze into a game with restricted sources etc. If you need any help with the rule side of things though I'd be glad to help :D
 

hornedturtle

Villager
I do feel a little out of my league when people are talking about sources and stuff. The only 4th edition sources I have are the three core rule books. Even with those books I don't feel like I have a strong grasp of the mechanics of it.
 
This seems as good a place as any to ask another lore question. Probably better than the transition thread, at least.

Is the Blood of Vol religion an actual religion? I mean, is there any actual divinity going on there? Would a Seeker cleric or paladin make any sense? What would such characters pray to/get their power from? Themselves? The player's guide is delightfully sparse on this manner.

Also, how long ago was the Last War?
 

pathfinderq1

Villager
Blood of Vol is an actual religion- at least it was in 3.x, and I don't think it has changed. Where they get their power from is not specified, but they get it. Given how distant deities are in Eberron, they aren't that far off the other religions.

If we're on the standard timeline, the Last War ended give-or-take one year before campaign start with the signing of the Treaty of Thronehold.
 

stonegod

Spawn of Khyber/LEB Judge
I do feel a little out of my league when people are talking about sources and stuff. The only 4th edition sources I have are the three core rule books. Even with those books I don't feel like I have a strong grasp of the mechanics of it.
Mastery of the system will come with practice; no worries. But with only the three core books, I think 354b is going to be hard-to-impossible to replicate exactly. Your best option is to reflavor one of the classes (warlock or wizard) as "psionic" (the fey warlock works well for this, though it adds a bunch of teleporting; the star pact warlock can work as well). Alternative, create a new character and bring in 354b later when there are options better suited to him.
Is the Blood of Vol religion an actual religion? I mean, is there any actual divinity going on there? Would a Seeker cleric or paladin make any sense? What would such characters pray to/get their power from? Themselves?
Yes, it is an actual religion. The key thing to remember is that in Eberron, no one has every met a deity. If their are deities running around, they are so distant so as to be non-existant. The only faith that has a tangible representation of their faith are the followers of the Silver Flame—the Flame itself manifests in Flamekeep—and the Elves of Arenal, whom can talk to their preserved ancestors that make up the Undying Court.

Seekers, however, take their faith internally. They believe power comes from within. Thus, they worship that idea and doctrine. A paladin of the Blood of Vol does not pray to a deity in that sense, they recite catechisms and other tenants of the Seekers, reaffirming their belief and preparing for a new day. A battle prayer would be a similar turn on these mantras, or a declaration of the enemy's misuse of their innate power.

Seekers believe the divine power does come from some innate power within themselves (thats the central tenant of their faith). Flamists believe their power comes from the Flame. The Arenal and Valenar elves believe that divine power comes from the reverence of their ancestors. Academics have no idea where divine power comes from, but they have several theories.

Key thing to note about Eberron: There are many questions. Very few have definitive answers.

Also, how long ago was the Last War?
pathfinderq1's got the right of it; the Treaty of Thronehold ended the war about 2 years ago. The Day of Mourning (the frightening arcane destruction of all of the nation of Cyre) happened four years ago; while fighting did not stop immediately, it curtailed soon afterwards.

The current year is 998 YK (years after the founding of the Kingdom of Galifar (the kingdom that existed before the Last War shattered them into five and more).
 
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hornedturtle

Villager
I think I am going to shelve 354b for the time being and stash him in a room at The Tower's Shard (if that's allowed). That leaves me with the question of what kind of character to make for the near future. That does probably depend on what types of characters (read roles) are needed and would be fun to play. I was looking through my books and a doppelganger warlock looks fun.
 

stonegod

Spawn of Khyber/LEB Judge
I think I am going to shelve 354b for the time being and stash him in a room at The Tower's Shard (if that's allowed).
The Shard has plenty of guest rooms. Just walk him into one for a while. :)
That leaves me with the question of what kind of character to make for the near future. That does probably depend on what types of characters (read roles) are needed and would be fun to play. I was looking through my books and a doppelganger warlock looks fun.
The write-up in the Eberron Player's Guide for changelings/dopplegangers is peach. +2 to Cha and the choice of +2 Int or Dex. Sweet!
 

ukingsken

Villager
Rock out! A striker is a good way to test the waters so to speak. Nothing to draw you into the edition like smashing some monsters!
 

ryryguy

Villager
So, changing subject slightly... would the "savage" halflings from Talenta be barbarians, do you think? I guess they could be rangers and shamans... any other fitting choices I'm missing?

It's kind of tough to make a small-race barbarian, since you can't use the best two-handed weapons.

I saw there was a Talenta-specific versatile weapon, the Talenta Tangat, but for a supposedly "superior" weapon it seems pretty sucky. It's a long sword with high crit, but only +2 proficiency. For a superior weapon pick, why not bastard sword for better damage than the long sword, but still +3 proficiency? Or waraxe, or basically any other superior weapon? If the tangat were martial I might use it for flavor, but having to burn a feat for it? Yuck!

Well, I may try a halfling barbarian anyhow. Not getting a STR or CON bonus sure makes me long for the 25-point buy of L4W, though!
 
Well, since we're (most likely) starting at level 4 you can start with a 17 in your main stat, and use the level-up bonus to bring it to 18. It hurts a little in the (very) long run, but during character creation it saves you four points.

As for the Talenta weapons, you should also take the Talenta Weapon Training feat, which gives you proficiency and +2 damage with all Talenta weapons.
 

stonegod

Spawn of Khyber/LEB Judge
So, changing subject slightly... would the "savage" halflings from Talenta be barbarians, do you think? I guess they could be rangers and shamans... any other fitting choices I'm missing?
The more savage ones (which are the majority) would be primal classes or beastmaster rangers (with drakes) likely. Some fighters. Probably not a lot of arcane classes save maybe the sorcerer. Halflings associated with the Houses (Jorasco and Ghallanda) will be more civilized, so can be of any class.
I saw there was a Talenta-specific versatile weapon, the Talenta Tangat, but for a supposedly "superior" weapon it seems pretty sucky.
The Talenta weapons actually can be used by Small creatures, unlike the others—the Tangat can be used one handed (instead of two as normal for Small) and the Sharrash can be used two handed (instead of not at all). Yes, for Medium creatures, there are better choices. Not much for Small (though you can wield a scimitar one handed as a small creature, a Small creature still has the option of using the tangat two handed for extra damage; there are no other polearms available to Small creatures other than the sharrash).

Edit: I just noted that the Compendium does not note the "can be used by Small" abilities of the Talenta weapons. Doesn't seem to work in the CB as well. It is noted in the EPG, however.
 
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renau1g

Villager
I was looking through my books and a doppelganger warlock looks fun.
I'm playing one in L4W and I enjoy him (although IC hates him, I've missed everytime with my encounter power :()

As for halfling's I could easily see them as Storm Sorcerors or Wild as well...(they also happen to be great at it as well)
 

EvolutionKB

Villager
The Talenta weapons actually can be used by Small creatures, unlike the others—the Tangat can be used one handed (instead of two as normal for Small) and the Sharrash can be used two handed (instead of not at all). Yes, for Medium creatures, there are better choices. Not much for Small (though you can wield a scimitar one handed as a small creature, a Small creature still has the option of using the tangat two handed for extra damage; there are no other polearms available to Small creatures other than the sharrash).

Edit: I just noted that the Compendium does not note the "can be used by Small" abilities of the Talenta weapons. Doesn't seem to work in the CB as well. It is noted in the EPG, however.
This reminds me of something I read on the WotC boards. See the transition thread...
 

ryryguy

Villager
Well, since we're (most likely) starting at level 4 you can start with a 17 in your main stat, and use the level-up bonus to bring it to 18. It hurts a little in the (very) long run, but during character creation it saves you four points.
True, that helps.

As for the Talenta weapons, you should also take the Talenta Weapon Training feat, which gives you proficiency and +2 damage with all Talenta weapons.
I had missed that feat!

Edit: I just noted that the Compendium does not note the "can be used by Small" abilities of the Talenta weapons. Doesn't seem to work in the CB as well. It is noted in the EPG, however.
Indeed, I was making a character with the CB when I started feeling like complaining. It makes sense now... I had read the "can be used by Small" in the book earlier and thought "hooray, now I can make a halfling barbarian!" Then felt let down when it wasn't working in the CB.

Thanks, both! Now I'll almost certainly make a halfling barbarian.
 

elecgraystone

Villager
I'm playing one in L4W and I enjoy him (although IC hates him, I've missed everytime with my encounter power :()
Not just YOUR warlock. :.-( I've still never seen what my vampiric embrace does.

As for halfling's I could easily see them as Storm Sorcerers or Wild as well...(they also happen to be great at it as well)
Yes they do. Halfling + sorcerer + Nimble spellcaster rocks! Then pick all area attack spells and you're a striker that does darn good as a secondary controller and doesn't grant OA. ;)
 
Oh, I'm going to suffer such a karmic backlash for this...

Not just YOUR warlock. :.-( I've still never seen what my vampiric embrace does.
Well, I'm quite sorry to hear that. My warlock has hit with Vampiric Embrace every time she's fired it off. And let me tell you, it's fantastic. Good damage and a large chunk of temp hp? It just makes life worth living. In fact, I think she's only missed maybe two or three times, always with at-wills. Yeah, it's pretty great.

Now, of course, she's never going to land an attack again, but that's because a) she's in Limbo, and b) she's about to get killed by some wretched elves.
 

elecgraystone

Villager
Oh no TwoHeadsBarking, you don't have to worry about Karma! Now that I know where all the warlock luck is going, I'll be right there to get mine. Lets see I've got rope, a dagger, some goggles so blood doesn't get in my eyes... That should be enough for me to find it. :p
 

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