Character Choices for a Newbie

[Herobizkit]

Memorize something different? Sure, if you've got 8 hours + 15 min/spell level to spare. Sorcerers can also swap out spells, Use Magic Devices if they need some flexibility (for cheap, too!), and don't have to worry about memorization.

Sure, Sorcerers do require a bit of system knowledge, but so do Wizards - every level, the poor PC is forced to re-dig through the Wizard spell list, look for two new spells, and hope he memorized the right one for the day so he can try it out. Otherwise, Wizards are stuck looking for scrolls. There are countless Sorcerer threads (just ask [MENTION=85158]Dandu[/MENTION]) to help decide what spells might be better versus others, but if he's a relatively new player, he's likely going to make a Blaster anyhow.

Clerics do make more efficient Necromancers, and are a stout first-time PC class, too. Tack on Dwarf and you're good to go.

Mind you, I always look for the hard way to solve a simple answer - which is always Bard.

 

[Burn_Boy]

Well said Herobizkit =D

I agree wholeheartedly. Sorcerers make the best Blaster character in my opinion. With a wizard you gotta send your time wondering "Well, is today going to be a heavy combat day, or am I going to need these utility spells? Or should I be safe and prepare some of each? Or maybe I should prepare something completely and spend my say scribing scrolls? or maybe..." Sorcerers get their spells and you're good to go. Sure you might choose a spell or two you might not every really need but you can swap them out eventually. Plus you get Bloodline powers and spells which can supplement you.

And let us not forget, if you take the Draconic Bloodline you eventually get natural attacks and can take Dragon Disciple!

 

[Dandu]

Behold, the Solo's Stupendously Superior Sorcerer Stratagems! It is not quite suited for PF, as some spells got nerfed (Solid Fog, Black Tentacles, Polymorph, etc), but in general you can follow the same advice.

Bloodline wise, I would recommend Arcane Bloodline.

Dragon Disciple is for someone who wants to get into melee. Sorceress do not want t get into melee.

Don't get too caught up in blasting; often a good control spell contributes more to a fight by shutting enemies down. The problem with direct damage is that an enemy at half HP hits as hard as an enemy with full HP, while an enemy who is blinded can't attack effectively even if he is at full health.

Also, Sorcerers do not make undead army types of necromancers very well. Leave that to the priest.

 

[Rejnferhth]

I want to play a quick-witted, smart alec, chaotic neutral, something. I want to be charismatic and be able to talk my way out of sticky situations. I am leaning more towards human, and I am wanting to go the spell casting route and I am a huge fan of necromancers and history/lore. So any suggestions on how to start this off and an interesting build would be extremely appreciated, as well as just general tips for a first time pen and paper player.

Oracle with the Bones mystery.

Charismatic?
Yes! The oracle's main stat is Charisma.

Able to talk your way out of sticky situations?
Yes! Bluff, Diplomacy and Intimidate are all class skills, and the oracle's main stat is Charisma.

Spellcaster?
Yes! No need for explanation here, I don't think.

Necromancer?
Yes! Oracles (and Clerics) make the best necromancers. Furthermore, the bones mystery gives quite a number of bonus spells and revelations related to necromancy.

History and lore?
Oracles get three knowledge skills as class skills. History, planes and religion.




Sample Oracle Builds
Chaotic Neutral Human Oracle 1
Strength 14
Dexterity 12
Constitution 13
Intelligence 10
Wisdom 10
Charisma 16
Feats: Extra Revelation, Extra Revelation, Command Undead
Skills: Bluff, Diplomacy, Intimidate, Knowledge (History), Knowledge (Planes)
Mystery: "Bones"
Curse: "Haunted"
Revelation: raise the dead, undead servitude, voice of the grave
Orisons: mage hand, ghost sound, create water, detect magic, guidance, read magic
Level-one spells: cure light wounds, inflict light wounds, doom

Chaotic Neutral Human Oracle 6
Strength 14
Dexterity 12
Constitution 13
Intelligence 10
Wisdom 10
Charisma 17
Feats: Extra Revelation, Extra Revelation, Command Undead, Improved Initiative, Toughness
Skills: Bluff, Diplomacy, Intimidate, Knowledge (History), Knowledge (Planes)
Mystery: "Bones"
Curse: "Haunted"
Revelations: raise the dead, undead servitude, voice of the grave, near death, armor of bones
Orisons: mage hand, ghost sound, create water, detect magic, guidance, read magic, light, mending, spark
Level-one spells: inflict light wounds, cure light wounds, doom, detect undead, cause fear, sanctuary
Level-two spells: inflict moderate wounds, cure moderate wounds, death knell, false life, levitate, minor image
Level-three spells: inflict serious wounds, animate dead, dispel magic

 

[Herobizkit]

Oracles aren't TOO shabby on the melee front, either, if needs be.

 

[Empirate]

Well said Herobizkit =D

I agree wholeheartedly. Sorcerers make the best Blaster character in my opinion. With a wizard you gotta send your time wondering "Well, is today going to be a heavy combat day, or am I going to need these utility spells? Or should I be safe and prepare some of each? Or maybe I should prepare something completely and spend my say scribing scrolls? or maybe..." Sorcerers get their spells and you're good to go. Sure you might choose a spell or two you might not every really need but you can swap them out eventually. Plus you get Bloodline powers and spells which can supplement you.

And let us not forget, if you take the Draconic Bloodline you eventually get natural attacks and can take Dragon Disciple!

I don't agree, on most every point.

1. Wizards make better blasters than Sorcerers. Applying metamagic is the way to go if you want to make your blasting meaningful (and maybe attach a debuffing rider effect, such as dazing spell). Wizards are simply better at using metamagic, since they don't have to spend more time casting the spell. If you need to use the same blasting spell over and over and over again (which would be a Sorcerer's game), you should use a stronger blasting spell instead...

2. Wizards don't have to wonder about memorization that much. Your spell slots aren't too shabby, since you will almost automatically play a specialist in PF. So you can always afford to pack a bit of utility along with your "combat suite". With PF's arcane bond, you can spontaneously cast one spell each day, which will often come in quite handy (and further devalues Sorcerer). Finally, scrolls can easily pick up the slack for you. As long as you have a specific utility spell in your spellbook, downtime converts directly into options: scribe utility spells. Scribe spells that are niche, but are really, really helpful when that niche situation comes up.

3. Expanding spells known, while depending a bit on DM stinginess and campaign, is much, much easier for a Wizard most of the time. And even if you don't find/can't buy new spells or scrolls much, you still learn more new spells per level than the Sorcerer!

4. Choosing a bad spell is horrible for a Sorc - he's stuck with it for a full two levels, AND upon choosing it, it is likely the highest-level spell known for him. Say you reach 6th level and take Fireball. Then you realize that hurting monsters just a little bit, Rogues and fire-resistant critters not at all, and taking care not to fry your party's tank really get on your nerves. What do you do? Well, nothing, that's what. You revert to using those same old 2nd level spells you've been casting for two levels already. Bad deal.

5. Choosing a bloodline to get natural weapons and walking into melee is about as good for a Sorcerer as getting cross-class UMD ranks and firing a Wand of Magic Missile is for a Fighter. Don't do it. You're gimping yourself. Melee is not and will never be your forte. Unless you're playing a gish, and even then, a Greatsword, Composite Longbow, or Guisarme should be your weapon of choice. Also, Dragon Disciple is cool and flavorful, but when all is said and done, it's still a rather weak PrC for a full caster. Just stay full-on Sorcerer and emulate with spells what DD would give you (not too difficult, and much more effective).



Not to say that Sorcerers can't be fun. I love Sorcerers, they're among my top three favorite classes (along with Wizard and Bard). But there's certain things you need to understand about them if you want to be effective. If you don't want to be effective and just have some lighthearted fun, that's absolutely fine with me, too, of course! I'm just providing optimization advice in case it is wanted.

 

[VanceMadrox]

but for social stuff not much beats rogues..

Actually for social and skill stuff in general Bards can often trump Rogues.

With versatile Peformance they effectively get MORE skills points then Rogues. And they have better reason to have a good charisma

 

[Emperor_Ner0]

Okay guys, keep arguing! I love reading all of this, and it is getting me really excited for the game. I am a fast learner and I don't mind to work for it a little bit, so it doesn't matter to me if there is a bit of dirty work involved in the class. I am really taking a shining to that Oracle though. Too many really cool choices.

 

[Burn_Boy]

Granted, the claw and fangs aren't that good for a sorcerer, a stiff breeze should be able to knock you out and I get that. What about the breath weapon and wings though? You can't say those aren't useful. Well you could but I don't see how it's not.


Also, this is a GMs prerogative but if you need to intimidate someone, suddenly growing claws or fangs while you're up in their face should in my mind, garner a +2 or even +4 to your check. You going to ignore someone who suddenly has a mouthful of pearly white fangs?

 

[concerro]

In our world I would say no, but in a fantasyland I don't think it has the same affect.