D&D 4E Character conversion problems for 4e (Short Essay)

[Seule]

That's why I posed it as a challenge...

Seriously though, I'm very afraid that the play style she embodies has no room in 4E.

Like the illusionist I posted, your playstyle is controlling without damaging. With only one controller in the PHB, I don't know yet if this will be possible.
If it isn't, you are probably waiting for an Illusionist class, or something like one. I suspect that that'll fit your character a lot better.
As far as race goes, you are using something so far out of the ordinary that it was never published for 3.5 (Savage Species is 3.0). It's possible that there'll be a playable pixie race in the MM, or you might have to make one yourself. Races without all the extras shouldn't be too hard to bash together.

Heck, if you reflavour the damage from the powers as 'demoralizing' rather than 'hurting', then Warlock might even fit. Wizard probably would.

Not every character can be remade nicely. I still can't remake my Fremlin Wildmage under the rules in 3.5 (or 3.0), and he was a 2e character. However, the vast majority can be. Barbarians can be done as Rangers or Fighters (or both), Monks can probably become Rogues with a few tweaks, and Sorcerers are essentially Wizards already. Druids, however, need more help.

--Penn

 

[Kordeth]

That's why I posed it as a challenge...

Seriously though, I'm very afraid that the play style she embodies has no room in 4E.

As Lackhand pointed out, you're taking a character who was built out of at least two sourcebooks (one of which was specifically devoted to building "non-standard" character types) and you're disappointed that she's not immediately convertible out-of-the-box using the 4E PHB and nothing else. That, IMHO, is a bit of an unreasonable assumption.

Furthermore, your "combat role" description actually sounds a lot more like what she does leading up to combat. Once initiative has been rolled and the battle is joined, what exactly does a scout do? "Oooh, Mr. Fighter sir, the orc is 15 feet to your north-northwest!"

Nevertheless, the way I'd convert a character like this goes thusly:

1) Comb the MM for pixies or pixie-type races--if there isn't a player-character race statted up that works, make one based on a monster stat. Give it "change shape" as an at-will ability and racial skill bonuses to Perception and Arcana.

2) Play a wizard. Focus on spells like sleep. Train in Arcana, because that covers detect magic. Train in Perception and Diplomacy, and if you can afford them, Nature and Dungeoneering for more useful scouting stuff.

3) Take Skill Focus (Diplomacy), explain it through fluff as her performances making people like her more.

4) Describe her as a skilled craftsman, and let her make whatever she bloody well pleases if she can pay the cost for raw materials and workspace rental--which conveniently comes out to total the purchase price of the item. (Alternately, if there are explicit crafting rules in the core, use those.)

5) Expect to rebuild the character again when a charm-focused class like psion or beguiler or what have you is introduced somewhere down the line.

 

[Xanaqui]

Pixie

How's this for a challenge:

Pixie (down-toned Savage Species variant) Sorceress, with the Mystic Dancer prestige class. In combat situations, she specializes in:

• Scouting, using alter self, polymorph, invisibility and various detection spells.
• Charm and Suggestion
• Non-lethal control spells, mostly the stuff that impose various conditions, such as Grease, Bands of Steel and Cloud of Bewilderment.

Usually hides her spell-casting through the silent spell and still spell feats.

Out of combat, she specializes in various Crafting and Perform skills, together with Diplomacy, usually using Perform to support her Diplomacy, and Craft to design the basis for magic items enchanted by other party members. She is very proud of her Perform skills.

This is an actual character, currently in the middle of the Savage Tide adventure path.

How would you convert her into 4E?

Early draft:

Pixie
Ability Scores: -2 to Str, +2 to Dex, +2 to Cha
Size: Small
Speed: 4 squares
Vision: Normal
Languages: Common
Brief Glide: Your flight speed is your movement speed + 2. As an encounter power, you can fly for 1 round at your speed.
+2 to all Jump checks (your wings help).
+2 to Diplomacy
+2 to Perception
You gain your choice any 1 Heroic Pixie racial feat as a free feat.
Low-Light vision

Racial feats:
Heroic:
Invisible: You can Turn invisible as a daily power. It ends after 1 hour, or when you attack (obsoleted by Constant Invisibility). It requires a Minor action to sustain.
Stronger Wings: While Jumping or Flying, treat your speed as +2 (stacks with Brief Flight). You gain +2 to all your jump checks.

Paragon:
Constant flight You may fly as a move action.
Greater Invisibility. You can use Greater invisibility as a daily power. It ends at the end of this encounter, or the next encounter if you aren't presently in an encounter. It requires a minor action to sustain.
Dispel Magic. You can Dispel magic as a daily power.
Minor Image. As a daily power, you can create an image with only a visual component.

Epic:
Constant Invisibility: You can turn invisible as a minor action. Your invisibility ends when you attack. You need a minor action to sustain it.
Greater Illusion: You can create an image with all components as a daily power. You need a minor action to sustain it.
Dance: As a Daily power, you may make an attack (no weapon bonus) vs. Will defence to an adjacent opponent. They will dance (move and minor actions only, speed halved) until they make a saving throw.

copy here .

 

[Kordeth]

Early draft:

Pixie
Ability Scores: -2 to Str, +2 to Dex, +2 to Int
Size: Small
Speed: 4 squares
Vision: Normal
Languages: Common
Brief Glide: Your wings help support you, but they are not strong enough to enable flight by themselves. You gain +2 to all Jump checks.
+2 to Diplomacy
+2 to Perception

Pretty weak compared to the core races we've seen. Drop the Str penalty, boost the speed back up to 6 squares, and make Brief Glide an encounter power that lets the character fly up to 8 squares (farther than eladrin can fey step, but teleport is more powerful than flight), and I think you're close.

 

[ProfessorCirno]

Just a footnote: obviously, player choices are going to be heavily limited right from the start. I don't think you can accurately blame that on 4e though - it's because the system IS new, and thus hasn't had as long to make new classes and races that, say, 3.x has had. Give it some time, and (hopefully) we'll be seeing a lot more options for players to take in 4e.

 

[Surgoshan]

I agree with GnomeWorks. It's patently impossible that the PHB will have any support for a ranged Warlord. The information they gave us was clear; warlords are, forever and always, melee fighters. Not only can you not alter builds to suit your needs, but you are in fact not allowed to make any choices regarding powers or feats. Purchasing the manuals will involve signing a license that requires you to play in the presence of WotC lawyer who will ensure that your character conforms to a preapproved archetype. You'll have to pay a licensing fee for every character you want to play, too.

Satire aside, I agree with Prof Cirno. The initial release will be limited compared to what we have in 3.x following years of diverse development of that product. Looked at another way, it sounds like 4e will be enormously liberating, allowing dozens of paths for any character to follow.

 

[Twiggly the Gnome]

The gruff drill sergeant (the Leonidas-type), the warrior-poet, the peasant-hero...
I don't disagree that roles are a bit constraining, but they've got some pretty good coverage on what they need, and it's comparable to what's been historically available (and mechanically effective) straight-out-of-the-box in previous editions

Something I'm keen on trying out is a Gnome tactical build warlord. The concept is basically a mathematical genius (loosely based on Charley Epps from Numb3rs) who uses his knowledge of probability to help himself and his allies in combat. Calls himself a Numerologist.

 

[Xanaqui]

Pretty weak compared to the core races we've seen. Drop the Str penalty, boost the speed back up to 6 squares, and make Brief Glide an encounter power that lets the character fly up to 8 squares (farther than eladrin can fey step, but teleport is more powerful than flight), and I think you're close.

Good points, although my choices are different than what you recommend.

I moved the Int bonus over to Cha; since Int and Dex mostly overlap, it seems that it's better to grant a bonus to one than both. Alternatively, I could have moved the Dex bonus over.

I'm assuming that Small size is a significant benefit, thus worth the (largely ignorable for many classes) Str penalty.

Good point on Fey Step; I changed flying to be quite a bit easier, and a little different.

I'm not clear that a speed reduction is a significant penalty, any more than it is in 3rd edition. In any case, it helps give some more room for even brief flight to look good.

 

[Zephrin the Lost]

Currently I am playing a Hexblade/Favored Soul who is kind of a LN paladin. He would be easier to build and more effective as a 4e paladin, fill the exact same combat role, and have the same shtick of reducing the enemy's ability to fight effectively, and do all from 1st level, as opposed to the time it took to get the spells/powers etc he needed to be really good at what I wanted him to do.

I used to have a 1/2 drow fighter/sorcerer/order of the bow initiate who would fit my original character concept of a truly deadly longbow expert built as a 4e eladrin ranger, and again do so from 1st level, instead of having to play for several levels to get what I had in mind.

With the exception of a bard I ran for several levels, nearly all of the character concepts I've had for my last few campaigns would transit smoothly into 4e, and I can already see that at least two would be better off for it. And it's while too early to say, it's possible I could get the same kind of effect from warlord as I had from my bard, so I see no worries in making the change.

--Z

 

[GnomeWorks]

I don't disagree that roles are a bit constraining, but they've got some pretty good coverage on what they need, and it's comparable to what's been historically available (and mechanically effective) straight-out-of-the-box in previous editions

Your examples? All melee, all the time.

So no, 4e does not afford the same choices as 3.5.

Look at 3.5 core. Take the rogue, or the fighter, or the barbarian. These classes can be taken in several different directions. Multiclassing makes it even more versatile (I don't want to get into a mechanical comparison of 4e and 3.5 multiclassing, though, so let's just leave it at the conceptual level). 4e multiclassing is taking a bit from another class - you might take the warlord feat, as a fighter, to give you access to it, but you're still a warlord.

I don't think you can accurately blame that on 4e though - it's because the system IS new, and thus hasn't had as long to make new classes and races that, say, 3.x has had. Give it some time, and (hopefully) we'll be seeing a lot more options for players to take in 4e.

I'm not even talking about splats. Look at 3.5 core. It is entirely more versatile than 4e has - thus far - shown itself to be.

Look at the warlord, as has been mentioned. All melee. You can't make a ranged warlord. Multiclassing doesn't solve the problem, either. Is it possible that there are some feats, or whatnot, to make it marginally possible? Sure. But from what we've seen, the warlord is all melee, all the time.

Now look at any 3.5 class. Does it tell you that you must be ranged, or that you must be melee? Does it tell you you have to take one particular approach to the class? No, it doesn't.

4e classes are archetypes, and I sincerely doubt that that's going to go away, because that seems to be how they're approaching class design nowadays.