Character Creation Advice: 5th level Rogue

[Rechan]

I've been DMing almost exclusively, and I finally have the opportunity to play; one of my players has taken the reins for an adventure.

I'd like to create a 5th level human rogue, but I have some problems.

First, ability scores. I don't want to really weaken myself in all areas except roguish, so I wanted to go Standard Array. However, after I put my stats in the right place, my character is rather weak.

My initial foray was Str 14 Dex 19 Con 13 Int 11 Wis 10 Cha 13. This left me with relatively weak HP (44 and 7 surges), and I wasn't impressed with my stats otherwise. I am leaning rather significantly to Brutal Scoundrel (the character doesn't lend himself to a high charisma, but I will still be using bluff and intimidate, so I do not want to hamper those areas significantly).

The second area of contention is magical items. The DM said 'you start with magical items equal to level 8 (So lvl 4 + lvl 4 = lvl 8). I know I will be getting a magical weapon. The problem is picking other items.

We are in a swamp. So I say to myself "Resisting poison is useful". The most appealing armor I could find was Deathcut Armor (Resist Necrotic/Poison 5). But it's 5th level. That leaves 3 levels to work with. I'd like to bump my defenses up by 1, so a neck slot item is in order, but none of the 2-3 level ones are appealing. So even if I pick a level 1 amulet, I have 2 levels of an item wasted.

I can't find a 2nd level item worth picking up.

Any suggestions?

 

[Mengu]

If you want an even spread, for stats, I'd go with something like:

Str 14
Con 14
Dex 18
Int 8
Wis 10
Cha 13

If you find HP's to be problematic, you can grab toughness. 14 Con gives you 8 healing surges, which should be enough, but as a striker, you do need to occasionally play it safe.

For items, I'd go with:
Duelist's Dagger +1 (level 3)
Armor of Resistance +1 (level 2)
Amulet of Physical Resolve +1 (level 2)
Restful Bedroll (level 1) - OR - Magic Hand Crossbow +1 (level 1)

 

[Danceofmasks]

Hmm ... I'm with mengu here .. do you really need int for anything?
That -1 on knowledge checks is worth some valuable stat points.

Anyhow, my opinion on stats is an extremist one, so I'll stick to equipment advice.

With only 8 levels of gear (you should have 15 or so at level 5), I'd forgo item daily powers for the most part, so here goes.
An action economy package .. all about getting that little bit extra.

Basic defenses:
Amulet of Protection +1 (lv 1)
Leather +1 (lv 1)

Offense:
Quick Dagger +1 (AV, Lv 3)

Misc:
Acrobat boots (Lv 2)
Burglar's gloves (Lv 1)

As a rogue, you don't need your minor for anything .. so an at-will stand as a minor is awesome for repositioning purposes.
Assuming, of course, you'll fall prone sometime.

The quick dagger .. well, that's a little trickier.
If you're sneaking and getting surprise rounds as well as acting early during normal rounds, you can sneak attack from range (due to first strike class feature).
Deft strike may not get you close enough to melee .. so throwing your dagger is the way to go.
Sometimes, especially vs. minions or if you get surprise + high init, you may not need/get to use your sneak damage .. which is where the quick weapon comes in.
Use the daily then, and sneak with a ranged basic attack.

In other news, I'd also recommend light shield proficiency for a brutal scoundrel.
Other feats of note are backstabber ('cos it's awesome), nimble blade (*cough* broken *cough*), skill focus - perception (yes, I'm recommending skill focus .. perception is king, and rogues are somewhat weak at wis)

 

[Mal Malenkirk]

If you are leaning brutal scoundrel, it means more melee and less ranged; most of the Brutal scoundrel specific powers are melee specific. You should embrace this and go all out melee, focusing every decision on making you more effective in that role. You`ll still be able to throw a shuriken in the first round to get that free sneak attack for acting first.

Don't hesitate to pick the Hide armor. Yeah, I know, -1 to stealth. It`s a big no-no for a ranged rogue who gets a lot of sneak attack through stealth but a melee rogue gets most of his sneak in other ways and gets hit a lot so it is more than worth the penalty for the increased AC.

In my opinion, feat wise;

Toughness
Hide
TWF
TW Defense

That +2 to AC and +5 hp goes a long way for a melee rogue.

Yep, it means you have to wait past level 5 for the all important Backstabber feat and the excellent Action surge, but first thing first : you have to survive!

---

Powerwise, there is a lot of choice now thanks to Martial power, but at low level there is one power that is a must for the brutal scoundrel. The utility power 'Adaptable Flanker'.

It is an encounter power that allows you to get combat advantage in melee as long as you have an ally adjacent to the target; no need to be flanking, you can be side by side.

Half of the time when a melee rogue gets in trouble it`s because he moved to a vulnerable spot in order to flank. This power guarantees that at least once every fight you`ll be able to sneak attack a target without having to take a crappy move in the middle of enemies. That`s priceless.

That`s the ultimate goal of the Melee rogue; be able to sneak attack every round in melee without needing to flank! And by level 6 you are almost there by your own means and already there if your buddies are team players and give you a hand.

 

[Rechan]

Thank you for the suggestions, but I am not looking to take an 8 in any stat (especially intelligence), nor am I looking for feat suggestions. And, as I said in the OP, I do not want a magical weapon (I know I am getting one rather soon).

So, thanks but I'd rather just have some suggestions for stats, and a suitable 2nd level item.

 

[MyISPHatesENWorld]

20 DEX, 14 STR if you're a brutal scoundrel. That leaves you at a 9 in something (I'd really take the 8 in INT though and use the point to get a little bump in something useful like WIS or CON when you hit paragon). A 9 may still be lower than you want, but 20 DEX is great, and for a brutal scoundrel, 14 STR is the best use of the rest of your points.

Acrobat boots, with +1 to acrobatics and stand from prone as a minor action at-will are a great choice for a level 2 item.

 

[Rechan]

It seems I'm going to have to amend my earlier statement and re-emphasize it: I will not take less than a 10 in a stat. Please stop suggesting it.

 

[MyISPHatesENWorld]

It seems I'm going to have to amend my earlier statement and re-emphasize it: I will not take less than a 10 in a stat. Please stop suggesting it.

Wow, this is the way you treat people who take the time to answer your request for advice? That's awesome.

 

[Rechan]

Wow, this is the way you treat people who take the time to answer your request for advice? That's awesome.

When I repeat myself for the second time, yes, yes I do.

You were the third person to suggest dropping a stat below 10. I consider my response polite when getting the message across that what is being suggested is not what I am looking for, for the second time.

 

[MyISPHatesENWorld]

When I repeat myself for the second time, yes, yes I do.

You were the third person to suggest dropping a stat below 10. I consider my response polite when getting the message across that what is being suggested is not what I am looking for, for the second time.

You only posted twice in this thread prior to my response. You only mentioned not wanting an 8 once.

Post 1: "First, ability scores. I don't want to really weaken myself in all areas except roguish, so I wanted to go Standard Array. However, after I put my stats in the right place, my character is rather weak."

Post 2: "but I am not looking to take an 8 in any stat (especially intelligence),"

Your first post implies that you are open to a stat distribution other than the standard array. You never, at any point said anything about a 9. But, I mentioned that a 9 may be too low for you as well (and in doing so, implicitly acknowledged your dislike of the 8 in INT, but that doesn't change the fact that in recommending stats, it is the best choice).

Good luck in getting someone to give you the advice you want to hear though.