[Character Development] "Throw oil, catch 'em on fire"

[kyonu]

Okay, to get this set off, this is going to be a Pathfinder character that uses pretty much any 3.5 rules, since I believe most of them havn't really changed for the feats this guy uses. To put it short, this guy will be the one using improvised weaponry, known as Oil Potions or flasks, Grease pits, and anything else flammable; then using a Torch, or something fire related to set it off. BE WARNED, FRIENDLY FIRE POSSIBLE!

I want this to be a step-by-step progression, from level 1-20 (Or until he becomes a viable character option.)

First things first: Class. There are a couple different things you can choose...
Sorcerer/Wizard: Item Creation feats, including potions.
Fighter: Can easily get the "Improvised Weapon Mastery" at level 8.
Alchemist: He has potions already, but he doesn't really match the theme here...

I'm leaning toward a Dex-based Sorc/Wiz to get a high throw %, and because I can cast a fireball spell to ignite the fuel. They can create awesome potions, or more efficient ones, and swinging an unlimited burning torch is awesome.

Ruling on Oil/Burning: As per Pathfinder PHB, the Torch has a non-proficient -4 to attack, so its best to get Catch Off-guard or the Weapon Finesse feat to negate this -4. (Catch off-guard if you prefer to not have a very high dex.) For throwing oil or a similarly ignitable fluid, you don’t receive the -4 penalty, and a direct hit deals direct damage to the target, and splash damage to all creatures within 5 feet. (Note: You receive the -4 bonus versus anything not used as an improvised weapon, such as a chair, or similar. For oil, flasks, alchemist’s fire, etc, do not receive this -4 penalty.) Range Increment is 5 increments, and a -2 to hit after each 10’ increment. Direct Damage and Splash damage for non-burning Oil, and damage received when caught on fire from ignited oil is unconfirmed. Does someone have this information?

While those are to be resolved, here are the first five levels: (Assuming good rolls, as a Sorc)
STR - (Doesn't matter)
DEX - 16-18
CON - 12+
INT - 12+
WIS - 10-18 (Doesn't matter or Wizard)
CHA - 16-18
HP - Average at 23
AC - 14+ Non-dex modifiers
Init - 3-4
Saves - Fort 1, Ref 1, Will 4
BAB - +2
Off hand - Torch
Main hand - Lather material (For throwing)
Skills Required - Use Magic Device (Maybe Profession or Knowledge)
Spells Required: (Not including Elemental Bloodline)
• Level 0: Flare (If enough heat to ignite)
• Level 1: Grease (If ingitable), Burning Hands,
• Level 2: Resist Energy (Fire), Scorching Ray, Pyrotechnics, Flaming Sphere (Optional)
_________________________________________________________________________
(Below are spells for after level 5)
• Level 3: Protection from Energy (Fire), Fireball, Flame Arrow
• Level 4: Fire Shield, Wall of Fire, Small Elemental Shape (Fire)
• Level 5: Medium Elemental Shape (Fire)
• Level 6: Large Elemental Shape (Fire)
• Level 7: Delayed Blast Fireball (Optional), Limited Wish
• Level 8: Incendiary Cloud, Sunburst (If Fire damage)
• Level 9: Meteor Swarm (Optional), Wish

Bloodline: Optional. Listed below are the options for a decent bloodline, and why.
• Celestial: Has Heavenly Fire (If DM agrees it has heat to it) at level 1. Level 11 gives you Flame Strike, and 9th level lets you fly. It gives you Weapon Finesse, Dodge and Mobility feats.
• Draconic: Gains Resist Energy (7th) and Spell Resistance (11th) bonus spells, (And wish at level 19) Arcana deals +1 per die rolled damage if you choose the Fire Dragon type (Red, Brass, Gold), Gains "Dragon Resistance", has Breath Weapon, gains Wings. Has Improved Initiative and Quicken Spell bonus feats.
• Elemental, Fire (Recommended): Bonus spells: Burning Hands, scorching ray, Protection from energy, Elemental Body 1 (9th), II (11th), III (13th), IV (15th). Arcana will change any damaging spell to Fire if you choose, and all Elemental abilities empower or resist the Fire energy. At 20th, you're immine to crits, sneak attack, and all fire. Good Feats: Dodge, Imp. Initiative, Weapon Finesse

Feats list required to make it work: (From Pathfinder PHB)
Throw Anything, Catch Off-guard
Improvised Weapon Mastery (Optional)
Item Creation-Potions
Quicken Spell
Dodge
Mobility (Spell casting)
Eschew Materials
Improved Initiative (Optional)
Magical Aptitude (Optional)
Master Craftsman (Optional)
Any relative Ranged Feats for throwing Oil (Optional)
Weapon Finesse
Weapon Focus (Thrown Weapon)
Quicken Spell
Widen Spell

Without further adue, here is a test first-level character:

Sorcerer Lvl 1, Elemental (Fire) Bloodline (Based on Point-buy) Alignment: Chaotic Neutral
Elf:+2 Dex, +2 Int, -2 Con
STR - 10
DEX - 18
CON - 10
INT - 10
WIS - 12
CHA - 16

AC: 14
Init: 4
HP: 6 (Average)
BAB: 0
SPD: 30ft
Saves: Fort 0, Ref 4, Will 3
CMB: 0 CMD: 14

Weapon: Flask of Oil, Torch
Damage: Ruling?
Damage: Torch - 1d4 hit + 1d6 Fire damage (Reflex DC15 negates, failure 1d6 per round until the DC15 is Successful)
Attack: oil 4, torch 0(Feat)
Armor: None
Skills:
• Appraise:
• Bluff:
• Craft:
• Fly:
• Intimidate:
• Knowledge (Arcana):
• Profession:
• Spellcraft: 1
• Use Magic Device: 1
- Perception: 2 (Racial)

Feats:
Eschew Materials (Sorcerer), Weapon Finesse (Or Catch Of-guard to negate -4 on torch)

Special: Cantrips (Unlimited level-0 Spells), Elemental Ray (1d6 Fire damage; 6 times/day)

Spells:
0-Level
• Detect Magic
• Daze
• Prestidigitation
• Ray of Frost (Deals Fire damage via Bloodline)
1-Level
• Grease (If considered Flammable) Color Spray (If not Grease)
• Burning Hands
• (Bonus Spell) Mage Armor

Gear: (Gold 120GP)
Adventurer’s Outfit 1GP 5lbs
Torch x2 2CP 2lbs
15 1-pint Oil Flask 1.5GP 15lbs
Spell Pouch 5GP 2lbs
Flint and Steel 1GP -
Flask (Empty) x6 18CP 9lbs
Common Meals x2 6sp –

Weight: 33
Money: Add it up…
Languages: Common, Elf

So there is the idea... What do you guys think? Viable? Powerful? Ideal? Suggestions?

Note this is open to anything that can be converted to Pathfinder. Currently, this is using -just- pathfinder, so may be weak in some areas.

Thanks in advance for input!

 

[Glade Riven]

Inquisitor? Or do you mean Alchemist? The Alchemist is the one that is all about smashing glass vials of various liquids over things...

 

[kyonu]

Fixed, whoops.

 

[kyonu]

So, anybody have any more feedback? I made this character for a campaign, and he seems to be the bigger damage dealer of the group. (Level 1 and doing average 10-25 damage) I would like to know of some interesting secrets or hints others might have!

 

[Set]

So, anybody have any more feedback? I made this character for a campaign, and he seems to be the bigger damage dealer of the group. (Level 1 and doing average 10-25 damage) I would like to know of some interesting secrets or hints others might have!

You've got your attack as a hit with a torch that does quite a bit more damage than a torch inflicts, according to the rules on page 157, which have it doing damage as a spiked gauntlet sized for you (1d4 for a Medium user) +1 point of fire damage. Where is the +1d6 fire damage and chance to catch on fire coming from?

I suspect that you'll need some extensive house ruling, custom alchemical gear and / or new feats to make this a viable combat option.


My own 'set people on fire' build was for Eberron, and used 3.5 rules, a halfling Ranger, who used the archery style for benefits to throw alchemists fire (frost, spark, acid, etc.), swapped out his pet for the Alternate Class feature to flank at range, Distracting Attack (PHB2 p 55) and had both the Grenadier (PHB2 p 79) and Shaped Splash (Races of Eberron p 111-112) feats, giving him additional bonuses with thrown splash weapons, in addition to the 3.5 bonus that Halflings got with thrown weapons. He ended up with a +12 to thrown weapons at 6th level, with an additional +1 f the target was within 30 ft., and another +1 to hit and damage with splash weapons, and the ability to cause one additional foe within 5 ft. of a target hit with a splash weapon to also take full damage, as well as the ability to cause splash damage to ignore any squares he doesn't want to hit (such as those occupied by allies), or to throw two flasks, at -2 to hit each.

Even then, he exploited the Organized Play rules for Xendrik Expeditions, which required one to spend 5x the normal cost for consumable items (such as alchemist's fire), but had the items reset at the end of the adventure, so that if you purchased four flasks of alchemists fire (at 5x cost each), you'd have four flasks of alchemists fire at the start of every new game. Without that sort of rule, such a character would essentially be throwing money at the monsters, and he'd probably get more traction by actually throwing money at them and bribing them to work for him!

At 4th level

At 6th level

Since pretty much everything that made him work, such as Distracting Attack, Grenadier, Shaped Splash, the additional options of Alchemical Frost and Alchemical Spark, and the Halfling racial bonus to thrown weapons, doesn't exist in Pathfinder, he's pretty much a lost cause to try and rebuild...

 

[kyonu]

Wow, very good feedback. And unfortunately i checked the net for the Pathfinder ruling, since I didn;t have the book at the time... But now that I look at the book, I find that it's just a standard 1d3 (M) + 1 fire damage. Personally, it doesn't much matter of the physical damage, since it was just an igniter.

Anyways, I never though of using a Ranger as the Igniter, instead of a caster... That's a very good idea. But the main idea for this build was to chunk oil, and catch them on fire, since potentially you can do a lot more with Oil (Obvius house ruling, if you can make different kinds of oil) but I will look into other means with the Ranger in Pathfinder, and I will post my findings.

You may be right tho, at higher levels this may seem like a very weak build. But soon I am going to run a campaign that has to do nothing but with "oddball" characters. No standard character, ie human fighter, but a character that kills its enemies with an off-the-wall never-before seen way, and a Sorcerer's combinations of spells meet that requirement easily.

Anyways, thanks for the feedback! I will continue to look into this idea.