Character Generation - Stat Draft Method

[Olaf the Stout]

Olaf, I feel your pain. I struggled with this for years and finally tossed the whole stat generation system and just let the Players pick their stats. I then make sure that no one is too powerful or too weak and work with the players to adjust their stats up or down as needed.

I get to pick all 18's.

Yeah, I think allowing my players to simply pick their stats would be like giving the kids the keys to the candy store! I couldn't see it ending well!

I think there would always be that one player in the group that would take that offer and go for multiple 18's or something similar, just to ruin it for everyone else.

Olaf the Stout

 

[Flatus Maximus]

Yeah, I had thought of that, and discussed it with one of my players. I discounted it as I think it will result in stats that are too high.

You're basically rolling 5 sets of stats and then picking the best one. You would have to think that at least one of those 5 sets of stats is going to be pretty awesome. I'm thinking multiple high stats and probably nothing below a 10.

So don't roll so many sets! Maybe just one; unless everyone hates that set, in which case you roll again. Or drop back to the 3d6 method. Fine tune until you are satisfied, but really this is the method you are looking for: the stats are still randomly determined, but having everyone use the same set eliminates the power level difference between each character (which seems to be your main concern).

Think about it: You like rolling for the randomness, but don't like the disparity in character power levels. You like point-buy because it levels the playing field, but don't like the inevitable min/maxing. theredrobedwizard's method gives you the best of both worlds.

 

[scourger]

Another method I considered for Sons of Conan was to give the players one random 18 and then let them roll the rest as organic. That way, they are exceptional in 1 random way and likely above average in many other respects. It would probably also require allowing bonus skill ranks to be spent on any skill as if a class skill to allow the players to take full advantage.

 

[Crothian]

Yeah, I think allowing my players to simply pick their stats would be like giving the kids the keys to the candy store! I couldn't see it ending well!

I think there would always be that one player in the group that would take that offer and go for multiple 18's or something similar, just to ruin it for everyone else.

Olaf the Stout

I think you missed the part where I said that the final stats are adjusted by the DM to make sure they are fair for all players. However, I've never had a player yet pick multiple 18's. In fact many of them don't have any. Also, every player I've done this with has had at least one score lower then 10. The secret is to game with players you can trust not to ruin it for everyone. I really don't understand why you would game with someone that is like that.

 

[On Puget Sound]

Here is one I've used:
roll 4d6 and take the top 3, 6 times.
Now count the net "plusses" for your stats (i.e. 14 or 15 = +2, 8 or 9 = -1)
If your net plusses do not equal exactly 6, roll 1d6 for each point away from 6 they are; i.e. if your plusses total 4 or 8, roll 2 d6.

Each d6 you rolled at this stage tells you which stat (in the order they are currently written) to add 2 to or subtract 2 from, to move your total closer to 6. If this adjustment would take a stat above 18 or below 6, instead add 2 to your lowest stat or subtract 2 from your highest stat, as appropriate.

This should leave you with 6 stats whose totals plusses equal +6, but whose distribution is not min-maxed. Now arrange those as desired and choose a race and class.

That looked a lot more confusing when I typed it than it actually is to do, so here goes:

I have +2, 0, +3, -2, +2, +3 for total +8. I must roll 2 "subtract 2" dice. Results are 1 and 6, so the first and last stat get -2. final total: 12, 10, 17, 7, 15, 15.

For a lower or higher power curve, just change the +6 target. If you don't want low stats, bump anything low to an 8 before doing anything else, and let 8 rather than 6 be the floor for subtract dice.

 

[kitsune9]

Yeah, I think allowing my players to simply pick their stats would be like giving the kids the keys to the candy store! I couldn't see it ending well!

Olaf the Stout

I do point buy for my games, that way everyone can just go with whatever they want for their characters. I am running a gritty campaign this time around so the point buy is only 12 points.

 

[Lalato]

Olaf... yes the link you found is the method I described above.

You can do certain things to mitigate the problems of imbalanced scores. Others have already noted them. Here's what I would do...

Collect all of the discarded ability scores and allow the players with the lowest bonus totals to swap one score out for another player's discarded score. Repeat this until all players are within 2 bonus of each other. There are usually enough decent discarded scores to allow for this.

Anyway, I find this method to produce really interesting stat arrays as it gives a mixture of both random and choice.

 

[Jhaelen]

When we started playing 4e I switched from using point-buy to using stat arrays. This means everyone's starting on an equal footing _and_ min-maxing is minimized.

Of course this leads mostly to cookie-cutter builds, but I'm fine with that. There's still been minor variations (e.g. switching primary & secondary stats).

I definitely like it better than players creating ineffective characters "for the sake of roleplaying". Unless you're playing a pretty untypical D&D game, combat is going to be important, so what's the point of creating a genius, weakling fighter?

It's detrimental to what I consider a fun game of D&D and in the worst case can ruin the game for everyone. It's not even realistic: If you don't have the slightest talent for something, there's no way you'll end up doing it for any appreciable length of time (unless someone else benefits in some way from your incompetence...).

 

[Aluvial]

The grid method, and the tool to use it are great. I've never seen it, and I love it. Character Statgrid

I just tried this method though.

1) Roll 3d6 in order. Then, you can rearrange your body stats, and your mental stats. So, STR, CON, DEX scores can be rearranged, and so can INT, WIS, CHR. You can't rearrange between the body and mind stats.

2) If you don't like the set, then you can dump it for another chance. Roll new stats BUT, you can't go back to the first set. If you dislike these, you can have one more chance (3 chances total), but you can't go back to the second. Essentially, the third set is the last set you can have. Most players stop after the first or second rolls. I've never once had a player make the third roll.

3) Then apply Racial modifires. I like Pathfinder's racial bonus system, two stats get +2, one body, one mind, and -2 for one stat.

4) Then, each player gets 6 points of standard 3.5 point buy to put where they want it.

The point buy portion is the balancing act. Most won't use all 6 points in one stat, they use them to bolster lower stats because there is greater value in that choice.

This leads to less difference in the characters, but still allows for customization.

That said, I love the grid method. Fantastic really. You have choices, but you can't have it all. I would employ the grid for my step 1 in the future, and then follow the rest of my steps.

Aluvial

 

[Kaodi]

Because beating dead horses is one of my favourite pastimes...

Beneath is a less ambiguous version of a point buy matching stat generation system. You may not want to look at it unless you care to look at a somewhat long and involved method that is probably only suitable for veteran players and the mathematically minded.

The two results I have gotten out of it so far are 15, 14, 12, 12, 12, 10 and 15, 14 , 13, 13, 12, 8, but it was more because of luck rather than a pure bias towards the middle like my earlier systems.

[sblock=Ability Arcana]
A less ambiguous but combination heavy method for stat generation might be the following: Roll 4d6 six times. If the stats would cost equal to or more in point buy that your target number, you may re-arrange the dice rolled in each individual stat seperately to whatever you want, as long as all six ability scores still add up to to the target point buy. If the result of 4d6 costs less than the target point buy, then you may start rerolling 1s in stats starting with the highest current total until the stats as a whole can get over the target point buy, and then proceed to rearranging. If you are starting with one of the higher point buy methods to begin with, you might instead start with 5d6. Also, if indivdual stats are lower than the minimum, start with rerolling the lowest numbers in them until they are high enough before doing anything else.
Edit: If no possible combination is equal or lower than the target point buy, then instead start rerolling 6s in the lowest stats until you can make a combination that is.

Here is another example rolled with Invisible Castle:

A 4,5,3,4 = 13 (5+4+4) Revised = 12 (5+4+3)
B 4,5,6,1 = 15 (6+5+4)
C 4,3,4,4 = 12 (4+4+4)
D 5,4,5,3 = 14 (5+5+4)
E 5,1,6,1 = 12 (6+5+1)
F 2,5,4,3 = 12 (5+4+3) Revised = 10 (5+4+2)

Total (3.X) = 5+8+4+6+4+4 = 31, Revised Total = 4+8+4+6+4+2 = 28

And another, that turns out lower than 28 to begin with:

A 6,5,2,2 = 13
B 1,6,4,3 = 13
C 4,5,5,4 = 14
D 1,3,5,1 = 9
E 3,6,5,2 = 15
F 3,1,2,3 = 8

Total = 5+5+6+1+8+0 = 25

Reroll B 1 = 2, Reroll D 1 = 3, Reroll D 1 = 5

Rerolled Stats
A 6,5,2,2 = 13
B 2,6,4,3 = 13 Revised 12 (6+4+2)
C 4,5,5,4 = 14
D 3,3,5,5 = 13
E 3,6,5,2 = 15
F 3,1,2,3 = 08

Reroll Total = 5+5+6+5+8+0 = 29, Revised Total 5+4+6+5+8+0 = 28
[/sblock]