D&D 5E Character revamp - looking for ideas

[Blue]

I'm playing in a long running Theros campaign where we all just managed to win our way back from the land of the dead. The DM has said that going through the portal we all come back as our idealized versions of ourselves and we can change race, class, whatever. As this is Theros, we're all agents of our gods, and most of us have been lent the artifact weapons of our gods to do a job the gods cannot and stop an unraveling of creation, so that I see as a set point.

I've been playing Spyros "Scrufflechin", a personable musical satyr archer rogue who worships Nylea, goddess of the hunt. I've been unsatisfied with him for a while, mostly because the other artifact weapons add +2d10 or +3d10 to each attack and my sneak attack isn't a big deal. (We also had a newcomer player with an artificer with same/better rogue skill than me, but he's going to be changing over to a melee battlemaster.)

We've just hit 8th level, and I'm looking for suggestions for classes and subclasses that can keep alive the foundational nature of the character, but might be more fun.

Points towards his "idealized version".

• Needs to take advantage of a +3 Bow in order to keep "on-level" with the others. (Side note, it is actually an artifact so you can't make it a Warlock's Blade Pact weapon - I looked that up.)
• Worships Nylea, goddess of the hunt. Maybe Druid? Stars could have some archery things, but nothing druid really synergies with bow use.
• Satyr - I don't really see this changing, but we use Tasha's for ability scores so that's not much of a limitation. For a really good reason a warforged looking like a Satyr could work, as we have an Advilwrought in the party Spyros really looks up to.
• Stealth expert. Nature expert. "Hunter" - Could be ranger. But would need to be an archer ranger build that address the "all I do in combat is damage, and others do that better". And no, the artifact bow will not magically become a hand crossbow.
• Very curious. Perception. Investigation. Thieves tools to see "what's in there". (Note that stealing isn't on the list - he's the least greedy and least kleptomaniac rogue ever.)
• Personable, plays music and dances, makes friends everywhere - suggests Bard. But what subclass? Can't be glamour as I played a glamour bard with this group already a few years back. A party face wouldn't be bad though. And expertise would be helpful to stay the skill monkey.

We leveled up so we'll be 8th, so some limited multiclassing can work like 5/3. I don't mind having some levels of rogue to satisfy points of the idealized version above. Point buy, so need to control MAD.

The rest of the party, as far as I know after they transform:

• Ember, Anvilwrought Human Forge Cleric (planning to stay)
• Psarus, elder Triton Paladin (missed the session, don't know if will change, likely to stay)
• Acastus, Human Wizard chef (likely will stay as is)
• Zeno, Human (??) Melee Battlemaster (was Human Artificer)
• Zander, Minotaur Barbarian (long term absence due to work)

What funky ideas do you have that keeps to his idea of himself - though some bending is allowed.

 

[TwoSix]

Slightly MAD, but Ranger 2/Valor Bard 6? Woodsy, highly skilled, good at archery, lots of face skills?

If you want stronger magic, maybe just straight Valor Bard, and grab Archery Fighting Style via feat?

 

[EzekielRaiden]

Perhaps ask your DM if you can tweak the College of Swords to make it archery-focused instead? Something like the following:

College of Missiles
Level 3: as College of Swords, except

• Gain Medium Armor, Shortbow, and Longbow proficiencies
• Gain your choice of Defense or Archery fighting style
• Rename Blade Flourish to Arrow Flourish. Defensive Flourish remains the same. Mobile Flourish allows you to move only half your speed, not your full speed, and you must end that movement closer to the target (not necessarily within 5 feet.) Replace Slashing Flourish with Volley Flourish: the extra damage can be applied to any enemy target within 10' of the original target.

Level 6: Unchanged
Level 14: Unchanged

This gets you useful spells, preserves your Expertise, builds upon your musicality, integrates the "goddess of the hunt" element more fully into your character, supports your use of the artifact bow (with Extra Attack even!), and doesn't require crazy franken-character multiclassing or special feats/spells/etc. No one else in the party is a Bard or Ranger, so you're not going to step on anyone's toes on that front. Finally, while it is a somewhat more Celtic/Germanic concept, you can think of this as bringing in "wyld hunt"/"song of the hunt"/the Horned God type symbolism, perhaps having a blend of Artemis (the basis of your patron deity), Pan, and Dionysus.

If you're concerned about preserving the character's roots, have him be Rogue 1/Bard +N for that initial expertise hit. You lose almost nothing (the Bard capstone sucks) and gain some stuff that might be worthwhile. Archery fighting style is pretty powerful since it's a rare hit bonus rather than a damage bonus, and damage bonuses come naturally via your Arrow Flourishes.

 

[Blue]

Slightly MAD, but Ranger 2/Valor Bard 6? Woodsy, highly skilled, good at archery, lots of face skills?

If you want stronger magic, maybe just straight Valor Bard, and grab Archery Fighting Style via feat?

I like that from keeping his foundational points of himself strong.

I worry that it doesn't address lagging behind in damage. My allies are adding +2d10 to +4d10 per round extra damage because of their weapons.

(Weapons are in the Theros book, all are +3)
Cleric has Akmon, the Hammer of Pufphoros: 1 attack, +3d10 fire.
Paladin has Dekella, Bident of Thassa, 2 attacks, +2d10 cold each attack.
Barbarian has been on a break, I forget what he does.

I can switch to primarily bardic spells, but the DM is throwing challenges at us that are calibrated assuming we have these high damage weapons. Our Wizard has been keeping up without using her weapon much (and even it does +2d8 necrotic damage) but only because the underworld was a megadungeon where we can take loads of long rests and she burns though slots like crazy. With Ranger 2 that only puts me one level behind in spell slots, but two class levels behind in spells known.

 

[TwoSix]

I like that from keeping his foundational points of himself strong.

I worry that it doesn't address lagging behind in damage. My allies are adding +2d10 to +4d10 per round extra damage because of their weapons.

(Weapons are in the Theros book, all are +3)
Cleric has Akmon, the Hammer of Pufphoros: 1 attack, +3d10 fire.
Paladin has Dekella, Bident of Thassa, 2 attacks, +2d10 cold each attack.
Barbarian has been on a break, I forget what he does.

I can switch to primarily bardic spells, but the DM is throwing challenges at us that are calibrated assuming we have these high damage weapons. Our Wizard has been keeping up without using her weapon much (and even it does +2d8 necrotic damage) but only because the underworld was a megadungeon where we can take loads of long rests and she burns though slots like crazy. With Ranger 2 that only puts me one level behind in spell slots, but two class levels behind in spells known.

Does your bow not give additional damage as well? I think it will be difficult to keep up in damage if you don’t also have access to a mega-flame tongue weapon. Not impossible, but challenging

The only thing I can think of that comes close is leveraging the accuracy bonus of a +3 weapon into a Sharpshooter build. Generally, for a high damage archery build, I like to grab these components:

1) Max Dex
2) Sharpshooter
3) A +X weapon
4) Elven Accuracy
5) 2 attacks (at least)
6) Greater Invisibility (or some other consistent advantage mechanic)
7) Archery Fighting Style

Bard with a Fighter or Ranger dip generally does the best job of getting most of those by the middle of tier 2. Straight Valor or Swords Bard (@EzekielRaiden's idea of a refluffed Swords Bard as a Bow Bard is an excellent one) will get you most of the way there.

Then your bow goes from a +3/+3 to a +0/+15, along with permanent triple advantage when GI is up. Upside to fighter dip would be Con save proficiency to help keep GI going, but you won't be able to grab both feats until level 9. You can skip EA (although refluffing an elven race like eladrin or wood elf as satyr-like is pretty easy) and stay Satyr, or swap to Custom Lineage/VHuman to alleviate feat pressure and try to get to 20 Dex.

 

[Tales and Chronicles]

To be honest, your party is already full of heavy damage dealer with artifact-grade weapons way better than yours.

You could try to out-damage them, or go the opposite and just assume another role.

A satyr arcane archer or ranged rune knight could be an option.

A Fey warden mixing exploration and ''face'' duty is also a possibility but damage would only be so-so.

 

[bedir than]

Not mentioned, but a possibility is a Kensei Monk. Take that to 5th level for your extra attack and then just play the rest as your Rogue which I might go Scout?

 

[Blue]

Does your bow not give additional damage as well? I think it will be difficult to keep up in damage if you don’t also have access to a mega-flame tongue weapon. Not impossible, but challenging

It does not, but it does extend my crit range to 19-20. Sorry, that was important information I forgot to include.

The only thing I can think of that comes close is leveraging the accuracy bonus of a +3 weapon into a Sharpshooter build. Generally, for a high damage archery build, I like to grab these components:

1) Max Dex
2) Sharpshooter
3) A +X weapon
4) Elven Accuracy
5) 2 attacks (at least)
6) Greater Invisibility (or some other consistent advantage mechanic)
7) Archery Fighting Style

Bard with a Fighter or Ranger dip generally does the best job of getting most of those by the middle of tier 2. Straight Valor or Swords Bard (@EzekielRaiden's idea of a refluffed Swords Bard as a Bow Bard is an excellent one) will get you most of the way there.

Then your bow goes from a +3/+3 to a +0/+15, along with permanent triple advantage when GI is up. Upside to fighter dip would be Con save proficiency to help keep GI going, but you won't be able to grab both feats until level 9. You can skip EA (although refluffing an elven race like eladrin or wood elf as satyr-like is pretty easy) and stay Satyr, or swap to Custom Lineage/VHuman to alleviate feat pressure and try to get to 20 Dex.

DM has agreed to allow my Satyr to take Elven Accuracy.

Looking at this, with Steady Aim for regular advantage, "Satyrical Accuracy" for 3d20, crit on 19-20 so roughly a 27.1% chance to crit. Between the chance I hit to apply damage more often, and the 4d6 SA damage also doubling, that might just work.

I could swap my 4th level +2 DEX for Sharpshooter, but when you include dropping down to an 18 DEX it's -6/+9 instead of -5/+10. Plus the effect that has on AC, Stealth, skills/thieves' tools, and initiative. You list Max Dex higher in your list and I agree - let's stay with the 20. Plus I don't have the extra attack to use this to really layer on the damage.

Since I'm doing Steady Aim, I don't need GrInvis, which leaves those SA dice to double on the crits. I'll stay Rogue 9 for SA plus subclass feature, and then think about either a touch of ranger or fighter for Archery Style.

 

[Blue]

To be honest, your party is already full of heavy damage dealer with artifact-grade weapons way better than yours.

You could try to out-damage them, or go the opposite and just assume another role.

Our Wizard has one of the weapons (though only +2d8 damage) and mostly ignores it to cast spells. I've been watching her, and the DM has been putting us up against some big threats in order to challenge us with these legendary weapons and she's been really straining to keep up. We've been in the equivilent of a megadungeon where we can retreat to safety and long rest frequently, and the casters have been pushing for this a lot. Once we don't have that option of short adventuring days I worry that the challenges in a day will outlast the casters - we had this before the mega-dungeon. But to be truthful low level casters have a lot less slots, so I'm not sure this is true.

A satyr arcane archer or ranged rune knight could be an option.

A Fey warden mixing exploration and ''face'' duty is also a possibility but damage would only be so-so.

I hadn't thought about rune knight at all. Skimming the runes some would really help roguely and face aspects of what I do. Anything in particular helping ranged attacking?

 

[Tales and Chronicles]

I hadn't thought about rune knight at all. Skimming the runes some would really help roguely and face aspects of what I do. Anything in particular helping ranged attacking?

Not much, to be honest. Runes are just really effective in general for weapon attackers.
Storm rune is pretty good for a 1-minute give-yourself-advantage-as-a-reaction feature.
Fire runes is useful to keep enemies at bay.

And the giant's might also works as a nice damage buff, even for ranged attacks.

Of course, Arcane Archers is more focused on archery, but I think the Rune Knight is more versatile.

 

[Blue]

Just an update - I figured while my damage on a hit may lag, with reliable accuracy (on my only attack) and Elven Accuracy I would apply it more often. And the artificer with heavy skill overlap was changing to a battlemaster.

What I didn't know was that the cleric moved to paladin (and the paladin to cleric). So their +3d10 fire per hit moved from one to two attacks. So I'm still trailing well behind in expected damage per round.

 

[TwoSix]

Just an update - I figured while my damage on a hit may lag, with reliable accuracy (on my only attack) and Elven Accuracy I would apply it more often. And the artificer with heavy skill overlap was changing to a battlemaster.

What I didn't know was that the cleric moved to paladin (and the paladin to cleric). So their +3d10 fire per hit moved from one to two attacks. So I'm still trailing well behind in expected damage per round.

I think other than some kind of spell shenanigans I'm not well versed in, I don't think there's any way you're keeping up with a +3d10 weapon. That's roughly equivalent to a 9th level rogue's sneak attack (17.5 vs 16.5), and that's per hit.

The only possible way I can think of with a bow on a rogue is haste/readied action to get some off-turn sneak attack.

If you were 10/11, maybe something with Valor/Swords Bard and abusing Swift Quiver/Sharpshooter to get 4 attacks a round. But other than that...yea, I don't know.

 

[Blue]

Thanks @TwoSix , at this point I've had my chance to rework and it's just going to lag behind as others also took the opportunity and had artifact weapons better suited to doing so. At least the new-player artificer with the same skill set got reworked to a battlemaster fighter and I'm pack to having unique skills. (They do +2d8 radiant per attack, but in a few levels will go up to a third attack.)

At this point the foes the DM throws against us to challenge this damage output overwhelm our defenses, so having a ranged weapon does have it's own set of advantages.

 

[ECMO3]

I'm playing in a long running Theros campaign where we all just managed to win our way back from the land of the dead. The DM has said that going through the portal we all come back as our idealized versions of ourselves and we can change race, class, whatever. As this is Theros, we're all agents of our gods, and most of us have been lent the artifact weapons of our gods to do a job the gods cannot and stop an unraveling of creation, so that I see as a set point.

I've been playing Spyros "Scrufflechin", a personable musical satyr archer rogue who worships Nylea, goddess of the hunt. I've been unsatisfied with him for a while, mostly because the other artifact weapons add +2d10 or +3d10 to each attack and my sneak attack isn't a big deal. (We also had a newcomer player with an artificer with same/better rogue skill than me, but he's going to be changing over to a melee battlemaster.)

We've just hit 8th level, and I'm looking for suggestions for classes and subclasses that can keep alive the foundational nature of the character, but might be more fun.

Points towards his "idealized version".

• Needs to take advantage of a +3 Bow in order to keep "on-level" with the others. (Side note, it is actually an artifact so you can't make it a Warlock's Blade Pact weapon - I looked that up.)
• Worships Nylea, goddess of the hunt. Maybe Druid? Stars could have some archery things, but nothing druid really synergies with bow use.
• Satyr - I don't really see this changing, but we use Tasha's for ability scores so that's not much of a limitation. For a really good reason a warforged looking like a Satyr could work, as we have an Advilwrought in the party Spyros really looks up to.
• Stealth expert. Nature expert. "Hunter" - Could be ranger. But would need to be an archer ranger build that address the "all I do in combat is damage, and others do that better". And no, the artifact bow will not magically become a hand crossbow.
• Very curious. Perception. Investigation. Thieves tools to see "what's in there". (Note that stealing isn't on the list - he's the least greedy and least kleptomaniac rogue ever.)
• Personable, plays music and dances, makes friends everywhere - suggests Bard. But what subclass? Can't be glamour as I played a glamour bard with this group already a few years back. A party face wouldn't be bad though. And expertise would be helpful to stay the skill monkey.

We leveled up so we'll be 8th, so some limited multiclassing can work like 5/3. I don't mind having some levels of rogue to satisfy points of the idealized version above. Point buy, so need to control MAD.

The rest of the party, as far as I know after they transform:

• Ember, Anvilwrought Human Forge Cleric (planning to stay)
• Psarus, elder Triton Paladin (missed the session, don't know if will change, likely to stay)
• Acastus, Human Wizard chef (likely will stay as is)
• Zeno, Human (??) Melee Battlemaster (was Human Artificer)
• Zander, Minotaur Barbarian (long term absence due to work)

What funky ideas do you have that keeps to his idea of himself - though some bending is allowed.

A couple ideas:
1. Fey Wanderer Ranger.
Based on the Thematics here I would look at Fey Wanderer Ranger. I don't know what your scores are but I would make Wisdom my first priority, Dex second and try to get a decent 12-14 Charisma. Because you add Wisdom to Charisma skills, that will give you screaming high charisma skills, better than a Bard, while still being a good Archer. This plays into the "music dances and makes friends everywhere". Your perception should be good too with a high Wisdom, investigation is a concern, but you could get expertise in it if you really wanted it.

Fey Wanderer brings a ton of spell power and control to the table. You don't have to do a max DPR build to keep up. This is more of a supercharged Gish. Ideally you want to max Wisdom and get something to frighten enemies to trigger Beguiling Twist - The cause fear spell through shadow touched is the best way IME at this level. It also helps if the battlemaster gets menacing attack and if your casters throw a lot of fear or charms themselves. At 9th level you pick up Summon Fey which puts out a bonus action charm monster every single turn that you can twist if they save and at 11th level you no longer have to concentrate on Summon Fey. This class is first rate control at that point - up there with the best casters in the game.

A 1-level multiclass into Undead Warlock on a 13 Charisma is extremely powerful here although that does not sound very thematic. I would not multiclass any other class until after level 12. At that time I would consider either Druid or Cleric to pick up more spell slots to summon more/better Fey.

2. Arcane Archer
I don't think this will be as powerful as the Fey Wanderer but it leans on the Artifact weapon more. With curving shot and a +3 bow I would go against the stereotype and take superior technique as my fighting style instead of Archery and then martial adept as one of my feats. Then put 2 points in dex and take sharpshooter as your last fear.

Druidcraft Cantrip and Nature Proficiency for free.

Grasping Arrow is the best Arcane Shot and I would say it is better than 2 battlemaster maneuvers at this level. You can do this build with a really low intelligence because there is no save on Grasping Arrow. If you want to make use of the other arcane shots occasionally this build gets pretty MAD. Having the battlemaster maneuvers from the fighting style and feat give you a couple more effects you can add on a short rest. With 2 Arcane Shots and 2 Battlemaster Maneuvers every short rest, you will be outrunning a straight battlemaster bowman most of the time I think.

If you do go with a high intelligence you can multiclass into Wizard starting at level 9. Going War Wizard will give you some great save options. If you do multiclass into Wizard Fey Touched with Hex is a nice feat. Maybe use it to bring a 13 to 14 or a 15 to 16 easing the MAD a bit.

You can also look at a Rogue-Arcane Trickster multiclass here. Again I would not start Rogue until level 9.