Characters of SMACK, the PbP game of horrid munchkinism
- Thread starter Jeph
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reapersaurus
Explorer
They are Hero Points, the only benefit from taking the Hero Class (from Four Color to Fantasy).Janos Audron said:
The -1 HrP's are reductions (limitations) when taking a power.
I hate to say it, but the amount of time you have to spend and the number of books (especially non-core ones) that you can use seems to be the only restriction on a smackdown character. Power can theoretically increase forever, especially with something like a Hero class that lets you take dozens of feats from new books.
I would also like to point out that, by stealing an idea from Jeremy, I could get an "infinite" smackdown.
Be a 16th level character. Use leadership to get a 15th level Cohort. Your cohort can be as simple as a Wizard 5/Incatatrix 8/Contemplative (Luck) 1/Spelldancer 1. Now, your cohort can go infinite. At the start of one day, your cohort (who has a very high Con score and a bunch of items to boost Fort save) casts a very empowered Endurance, extended a couple of times. If you miss the Fort save (only on a 1), reroll.
The next day, your new Con will be around 2.5 points higher for every 2 levels of the empower. An increase of +2 to Con will give you +1 Fort save and +1 Con modifier, which lets you Empower a spell 2 extra times... You can Extend a spell a large # of times very quickly, and the Luck domain gives you a 1/400 chance of failing on a given day. By rolling 4s (so, +4 to Con for 2 spell levels), you increase your Con score at a ridiculous rate, doubling the empower bonus on the Endurance every time you roll another 4.
At the end of all this? Instant Metamagic it Persistent (+1000000 Con) and put it in an item at Will for level 3*spell level 2*1000 (at will)= 6000 gp and a little experience. Using this item, you can cast infinitely metamagiced spells with spelldancer. Mix with other stat-buff spells, spells that last all year to taste. Then give those items back to the 16th level "smackdown" character, who could be a 16th level commoner for all it matters.
I would also like to point out that, by stealing an idea from Jeremy, I could get an "infinite" smackdown.
Be a 16th level character. Use leadership to get a 15th level Cohort. Your cohort can be as simple as a Wizard 5/Incatatrix 8/Contemplative (Luck) 1/Spelldancer 1. Now, your cohort can go infinite. At the start of one day, your cohort (who has a very high Con score and a bunch of items to boost Fort save) casts a very empowered Endurance, extended a couple of times. If you miss the Fort save (only on a 1), reroll.
The next day, your new Con will be around 2.5 points higher for every 2 levels of the empower. An increase of +2 to Con will give you +1 Fort save and +1 Con modifier, which lets you Empower a spell 2 extra times... You can Extend a spell a large # of times very quickly, and the Luck domain gives you a 1/400 chance of failing on a given day. By rolling 4s (so, +4 to Con for 2 spell levels), you increase your Con score at a ridiculous rate, doubling the empower bonus on the Endurance every time you roll another 4.
At the end of all this? Instant Metamagic it Persistent (+1000000 Con) and put it in an item at Will for level 3*spell level 2*1000 (at will)= 6000 gp and a little experience. Using this item, you can cast infinitely metamagiced spells with spelldancer. Mix with other stat-buff spells, spells that last all year to taste. Then give those items back to the 16th level "smackdown" character, who could be a 16th level commoner for all it matters.
reapersaurus
Explorer
Yep - I basically agree, Elric - that's basically what I said with "Jeremy -you successfully broke the magic system in 3E".
If you CAN multiply-Empower spells (which as Jeremy says is NOT explicitly stated in the rules), than Spelldancer breaks magic.
Of course, going thru an Anti-Magic Field would mess with those smacks quite a bit, eh?
For my cheese, I prefer innate internal abilities, and would prefer that magic take a back seat in the Smack.
And I like using Feats (and trust me - it wasn't easy finding feats that combine to a strong character. To be honest, the vast majority of feats absolutely suck for Smackdown purposes).
So I wanted to make a Smack, abusing the abuseable feats, while at the same time, ironically centering the Smack on everyone's most-dumped-stat : CHArisma.
Ever since DotF came out, I've concentrated on the power-gaming aspects of Divine Might, and based my Shuriken Smack around it.
When this came around, I finally had enough levels and breadth of feat selection to properly abuse Divine Might.
Looking back, I'm really shocked how much damage it does, and that's without resorting to the "bucket of snails" approach that many Smackdown authors rely on.
This Smack doesn't do 2,000 when the squares around them are filled with kobolds - this smack does it as long as anything is standing within 25' of him! (20' reach with 5' step)
Imagine how many opponents I COULD have extrapolated could fit around him, after he charges in?
And note that each time he drops one, he gets a free attack on another.
And each time he successfully attacks one, he gets a free attack on another (from Typhoon Attack). Hell, with no errata, couldn't Typhoon Attack provide infinite damage, as long as Mok-Tar's damage isn't causing two opponents within reach to drop?
Because of this, I wouldn't mind removing a feat or combination that Jeph objects to (if it makes sense to me as well).
If you CAN multiply-Empower spells (which as Jeremy says is NOT explicitly stated in the rules), than Spelldancer breaks magic.
Of course, going thru an Anti-Magic Field would mess with those smacks quite a bit, eh?
For my cheese, I prefer innate internal abilities, and would prefer that magic take a back seat in the Smack.
And I like using Feats (and trust me - it wasn't easy finding feats that combine to a strong character. To be honest, the vast majority of feats absolutely suck for Smackdown purposes).
So I wanted to make a Smack, abusing the abuseable feats, while at the same time, ironically centering the Smack on everyone's most-dumped-stat : CHArisma.
Ever since DotF came out, I've concentrated on the power-gaming aspects of Divine Might, and based my Shuriken Smack around it.
When this came around, I finally had enough levels and breadth of feat selection to properly abuse Divine Might.
Looking back, I'm really shocked how much damage it does, and that's without resorting to the "bucket of snails" approach that many Smackdown authors rely on.
This Smack doesn't do 2,000 when the squares around them are filled with kobolds - this smack does it as long as anything is standing within 25' of him! (20' reach with 5' step)
Imagine how many opponents I COULD have extrapolated could fit around him, after he charges in?
And note that each time he drops one, he gets a free attack on another.
And each time he successfully attacks one, he gets a free attack on another (from Typhoon Attack). Hell, with no errata, couldn't Typhoon Attack provide infinite damage, as long as Mok-Tar's damage isn't causing two opponents within reach to drop?
Because of this, I wouldn't mind removing a feat or combination that Jeph objects to (if it makes sense to me as well).
Jeremy
Explorer
Hey! Look! Spelldancer does have a limitation! You gotta make a perform check equal to 10 plus the level of the spell.
So to do one of those 33x empowered stat boosters you're going to need an item of +10 or so to perform. Good thing you can buy up to +30 for dirt cheap. Hey, they tried!
So to do one of those 33x empowered stat boosters you're going to need an item of +10 or so to perform. Good thing you can buy up to +30 for dirt cheap. Hey, they tried!
Actually, that does not make the infinite metamagic impossible, just significantly harder. I assume that you mean 10+ # of levels gotten for free with spelldancer= perform check DC. In this case, the preceeding tactic will still work if you cast Empowered spells to boost your Cha. However, you now need to cast 2 different spells, which means that you need significantly longer durations to give yourself enough time to cast the next round of both. Also, Cha boosting (to boost perform skill) requires you to roll 4s and takes away the exponential doubling nature of the smack. Of course, I couldn't do the calculations for an optimal route in either case. Just make sure that you get an item of +30 skill so that you can Empower your first Cha boosting spell a ton (since you now increase at an arithmetic rate, not a geometric one). It should also be noted that your Con boost won't really be needed much, so you can Extend it for weeks and you don't really have to worry about it. The Mysticism domain allows you to avoid the Con boosting entirely, since Cha will boost your saves.
reaper, where is Divine Hammer from? I'm assuming that it's a prestige class- if so, what are the prereqs? By the way, I think it's a little ridiculous to take a "Light Encumbrance only" for a feat that is already limited to no medium or heavy armor.
I would like to point out that it seems very easy to temporarily get an infinite number of HP. Use the Super-Hero power from FctF (on Reaper's sheet) at level 16 with Con. Thus, you take 15 damage to give yourself 3 Hero points, which at the same time give you +2 Con and +16 HP. Since there's no limit, just burn 15000000 HP instead...
I would like to point out that it seems very easy to temporarily get an infinite number of HP. Use the Super-Hero power from FctF (on Reaper's sheet) at level 16 with Con. Thus, you take 15 damage to give yourself 3 Hero points, which at the same time give you +2 Con and +16 HP. Since there's no limit, just burn 15000000 HP instead...
reapersaurus
Explorer
good point about the encumbrance limitation, Elric - I'll revisit those ideas.
And i guess you're right, about the burning of hp's for CON.
Of course, there's 2 things stopping that:
a) Mok-Tar is only a 15 HD guy, so that wouldn't work
and b) The DM should slap anyone trying it.
I'm sure a cap could easily be put on it, and most parties would agree to it (ask RangerWickett on the Natural 20 Press Forum about it)
edit: Elric -= it only lasts a minute, and it's either an action, or if it's a free action, there's a limit to the # of free actions you can take in one round, so he could only do it for 10 rounds before the benefit begins to wear off.
See? Not as bad as you were worried about.
The meta-magics for free is more worrying to me, from a 'infinite' (or practically-infinite) standpoint.
And i guess you're right, about the burning of hp's for CON.
Of course, there's 2 things stopping that:
a) Mok-Tar is only a 15 HD guy, so that wouldn't work
and b) The DM should slap anyone trying it.
I'm sure a cap could easily be put on it, and most parties would agree to it (ask RangerWickett on the Natural 20 Press Forum about it)
edit: Elric -= it only lasts a minute, and it's either an action, or if it's a free action, there's a limit to the # of free actions you can take in one round, so he could only do it for 10 rounds before the benefit begins to wear off.
See? Not as bad as you were worried about.
The meta-magics for free is more worrying to me, from a 'infinite' (or practically-infinite) standpoint.
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