Charge and Hover

[Sektat]

Is it possible to charge while hovering? For a dragon with average manoverability.

 

[Herzog]

From my understanding of the rules (and without consulting my books) :

No.

First, to 'charge' you need to move. Hovering is in effect remaining stationary, so you cannot charge and hover at the same time. A flying charge is (if I'm not mistaken) actually a 'swoop'.
Second, I think a dragon with average manouverability can not hover.

Herzog

 

[shilsen]

Is it possible to charge while hovering? For a dragon with average manoverability.

You can't be hovering and charging at the same time, but if you meant to ask whether a hovering dragon can then charge (so it would be hovering in round X and charging in round X+1), then the answer is "Yes."

Second, I think a dragon with average manouverability can not hover.

Correct. You need at least good maneuverability to hover. But the aforementioned dragon could pull it off with the Hover feat.

 

[Sektat]

Yes, I meant a dragon with the hover feat.
And while hovering, you can move in *any* direction at half speed (I suppose you go up at quarter speed and down at normal speed). So hovering is cool to avoid the "dragon is facing direction X" problem, since you don't have a direction while hovering (as opposed to normal flying).
Soooo, it still is not clear to me: Since he can move while hovering, why can't he charge *while hovering*. I see nothing in the rules which prevents this. Except the fact that the dragon can only move at half speed, but I see no restriction here in the charge rules. It's not an obstacle.
It's hard to imagine, though, charging while hovering I mean....

 

[Blackrat]

Yes, I meant a dragon with the hover feat.
And while hovering, you can move in *any* direction at half speed (I suppose you go up at quarter speed and down at normal speed). So hovering is cool to avoid the "dragon is facing direction X" problem, since you don't have a direction while hovering (as opposed to normal flying).
Soooo, it still is not clear to me: Since he can move while hovering, why can't he charge *while hovering*. I see nothing in the rules which prevents this. Except the fact that the dragon can only move at half speed, but I see no restriction here in the charge rules. It's not an obstacle.
It's hard to imagine, though, charging while hovering I mean....

Interesting. There is no clear answer in the rules but I would say no. Here's why:

You must have a clear path toward the opponent, and nothing can hinder your movement (such as difficult terrain or obstacles). Here’s what it means to have a clear path. First, you must move to the closest space from which you can attack the opponent. (If this space is occupied or otherwise blocked, you can’t charge.) Second, if any line from your starting space to the ending space passes through a square that blocks movement, slows movement, or contains a creature (even an ally), you can’t charge. (Helpless creatures don’t stop a charge.)

Since while hovering you can only move at half speed which means you are forced to move at slowed speed and hovering is technically hindering your movement.

 

[shilsen]

Yes, I meant a dragon with the hover feat.
And while hovering, you can move in *any* direction at half speed (I suppose you go up at quarter speed and down at normal speed). So hovering is cool to avoid the "dragon is facing direction X" problem, since you don't have a direction while hovering (as opposed to normal flying).
Soooo, it still is not clear to me: Since he can move while hovering, why can't he charge *while hovering*. I see nothing in the rules which prevents this. Except the fact that the dragon can only move at half speed, but I see no restriction here in the charge rules. It's not an obstacle.
It's hard to imagine, though, charging while hovering I mean....

I see the problem. You've misread the feat. It does not say you can move while hovering. What it says is "When flying, the creature can halt its forward motion and hover in place as a move action. It can then fly in any direction, including straight down or straight up, at half speed, regardless of its maneuverability."

See the difference? You can hover as a move action and then charge, and since charging takes a full-round action you have to do the two in separate rounds.

 

[Blackrat]

And found another reason for no

Charging is a special full-round action that allows you to move up to twice your speed and attack during the action. However, it carries tight restrictions on how you can move.
...
If you are able to take only a standard action or a move action on your turn, you can still charge, but you are only allowed to move up to your speed (instead of up to double your speed). You can’t use this option unless you are restricted to taking only a standard action or move action on your turn.

When flying, the creature can halt its forward motion and hover in place as a move action.

Now my english skill is again failing me when I'm trying to explain my point in this but I hope those bolded text bits make it self-explatory. If not please tell me and I try.

 

[Sektat]

Hmm, maybe hovering is not clear to everbody:
It's quite easy: Hovering is another mode of flying, and changing from flying to hovering costs "a move action" (and not the hovering itself). So in round 1 the dragon could fly to point X (move action) and change to hovering (another move action).
In round 2 he is allowed to do a full round action since he starts his turn hovering.
In round 3 (still hovering) he could fly to point Y at half speed (still hovering; another move action) and attack there (standard action).

This is how I understand hovering! So the original question was based on this. And I feel like a previous poster that it (charging) should not be allowed although it doesn't say so explicitly in the rules since the dragon is somehow hindered.

 

[Infiniti2000]

First, I agree with Blackrat regarding non-Draconomicon interpretation of the rules.

But, do you use the Draconomicon? If so, the answer to your question is a clear 'no' because they've changed/clarified how hovering works (for the better IMO, though it nerfs hovering -- we have extensively "playtested" this in the Battle of All Alignments). Basically, it requires a move action to gather momentum in the direction that the dragon wants to travel. The dragon can, however, break out of hovering at any point and therefore can charge with normal flying. Furthermore, note that you can never charge upwards because that is hampered movement (unless you have perfect maneuverability).

 

[Sektat]

We don't use the draconomicon.

My interpretation for hover comes mainly from wizards document "all about movement part 4":
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A creature with less than good maneuverability, such as a harpy, that gains the ability to hover from the Hover feat, must use a move action to switch from normal flight to hovering. It can then use another move action (if it has one available during the current turn), to move at half speed in any direction it likes (including straight up, straight down, or backward). Before or after it does this hovering movement, the creature can turn to face any direction it likes. When it stops hovering, the creature can resume ordinary flight in any direction in which it could normally fly.

If a creature begins its turn hovering, it can hover in place for the turn (no matter what its maneuverability) and take a full-round action. A hovering creature cannot make wing attacks, but it can attack with all other limbs and appendages it could use in a full attack. The creature can instead use a breath weapon or cast a spell instead of making physical attacks, if it could normally do so.
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However, I don't see a difference to what you said about the dracomonicon and the change they did to hover.