Charge vs. Partial Charge

[Number47]

The funny thing is, if you ignore charging, it works exactly as (move-action + partial action), which can be exchanged for (full-round action + 5-ft step). I do believe that charging is the only bastard child amongst all the possible actions. I am seriously considering just letting players in my game partial charge as part of an otherwise standard action. It might be a problem in some games, but I have NO rules lawyers or min-maxers playing in my group so I doubt it would even come up much. I mean, really, it just seems mean to say that, no, you can't sheath a weapon (MEA), and charge while drawing your sword.

 

[Mean DM]

This is one of the more routinely confusing parts of current D&D terminology. A standard turn is NOT composed of two partial actions, like you expected.

Ah, man you are right. I was confused. Its really hard to relearn the rules once you have learned them wrong. Paradigm shifts hurt my head. I think I got it now, though. Now I just have to explain it right to my players. Thanx for being the explanation.

No off to rework the Nightscale encounter.

Thanx again,
Mean DM

 

[Corwin]

It's important to understand that the Sage's ruling is largely a matter of game ballance and not logic. I agree with him on this one.

If you were allowed to move as your MEA and then set up a partial charge in another direction, it starts to eat away at the normal charge rules. You shouldn't be allowed to charge at a 90 degree angle, so no move+partial charge to get around it.

When this loophole first popped up, people were doing things like:

"I move around the corner so I can see the orc. I ready a partial charge... If he so much as breathes, blinks or twitches, I charge him with my partial action... Oh look, he is breathing , I charge."

 

[dcollins]

The funny thing is, if you ignore charging, it works exactly as (move-action + partial action)...

Except that all (non-move) partial actions allow an additional 5-ft. step with them.

 

[Virago]

The funny thing is, if you ignore charging, it works exactly as (move-action + partial action), which can be exchanged for (full-round action + 5-ft step). I do believe that charging is the only bastard child amongst all the possible actions

Untrue twice over. You're forgetting sequence of actions and partial runs.

The Ready action lets you do MEA,PA, sure -- but not PA, then MEA. So actually using the printed rules for Ready, the turn is not really very equivalent to PA+MEA unless you basically ignore the printed rules and intent for Ready.

Also, several people are forgetting the partial run, used to run around corners. Then there's the weird question of whether moving (MEA) then running (PA) counts as "if all you do is move..." for the purposes of the AoO for disengaging.

To throw a little more sand into the logic of the argument that "Ready makes it so that a SA might as well be PA+MEA"

(1) Minor Logical Jusitification for SA != PA+MEA

Ready, when properly used, has a good chance of costing the character initiative. I.e., the MEA,PA sequence taken by a non-abusive Ready action actually takes longer than a character's normal turn. And that is why more can be accomplished, and why Ready does not make a standard action equal to an MEA plus any old partial.

Note that Ready will not always cost you initiative, especially in contrived 1-on-1 example situations. In real play however, using Ready legitimately will often cost you initiative and slow you down, unless you allow bogus triggers.

I'm not saying that just going whole-hog on letting SA=MEA+PA will destroy the game, although I do think you need to work out what running and charging really mean.

IMC I like my players to just explain what they want their characters to do, and then I translate it into game terms, and show them how much of it they get accomplished in their turn. The major culprit of this style of play however is the 5' step, which has such incredible tactical importance that players generally have to know the rules for it.

 

[Cl1mh4224rd]

basically ...

a standard action minus a move/mea equals a partial action
... but ...
a partial action plus a move/mea does not equal a standard action

as was said earlier, 99% of the time there is no difference. but yes, it's bad math.

one thing i hope they do in 4e is handle the breakdown of actions better. not that they're bad now, mind you. they can just be a bit confusing at times.

 

[Iku Rex]

(I just can't let this go. )

Ok, i see your points. What is confusing me about this line of logic (though I agree with you) is the other examples of partial actions (e.g., attack, cast spell, etc.). How are these different from a partial charge?

They're not, from a common sense point of view. You can also make a good case for them being the same from a rules point of view, but let's not go there again.

I want to be able to articulate this well to my players.

Good luck on that. Let me know if you find a way. So far, nobody else has been able to.

Why can't a character who stopped a few seconds ago and readied a partial charge, charge in any direction?
Why must the characters' actions be unnecessarily restricted by the game mechanics by letting previous movement magically hold them back if they want to charge?

Why is it that readying an action and taking 5' step to the side will guarantee that a Fighter who has already started his movement for the round can't charge you?

In our game we ignore the new "all movement must be in a straight line before a charge" rule. We have also made a standard action = a move (equivalent) action + partial action. The later is not the case by the letter of the rules but simplifies the combat system, avoids in-game silliness because of game-mechanical restrictions and causes no problems with game play.

 

[Iku Rex]

When this loophole first popped up, people were doing things like:

"I move around the corner so I can see the orc. I ready a partial charge... If he so much as breathes, blinks or twitches, I charge him with my partial action... Oh look, he is breathing , I charge."

What's so wrong about the above action (the "readying" is silly of course) from an in-game pint of view? At no point is the character charging around the corner. When he reaches the corner he still has plenty of time left of his round, and has not been moving particularly fast. Why can't he charge?

 

[Iku Rex]

Except that all (non-move) partial actions allow an additional 5-ft. step with them.

Incorrect. The PHB is a little unclear, but the Sage has ruled that the same rule applies to partial actions as with standard actions: You only get a 5' step with your action if you haven't taken a move action during the round.

 

[Iku Rex]

Note that Ready will not always cost you initiative, especially in contrived 1-on-1 example situations. In real play however, using Ready legitimately will often cost you initiative and slow you down, unless you allow bogus triggers.

The point is that in a given situation it's possible (even without "bogus triggers") for the character to take the partial action directly after the MEA. So why not let th player do it without pretending to "ready" for some silly condition?