Charging and the surprise round

[Hypersmurf]

(RC aside for a moment)
It's more restrictive than one half of the OR, but not the other half. Isn't that the purpose of the OR statement in the first place, however? Just ignore the part about standard action.

You can't ignore it.

A slowed creature is restricted to a single standard action or move action.
A nauseated creature is restricted to a single move action.
Can the nauseated creature take a standard action or move action? No, he can only take a move action.

You're reading the "or" more permissively than it's intended. You're saying "If you can take a standard action, or if you can take a move action, you're good". But that's not the restriction - the restriction is if you can take a standard action or move action. If you can't take a standard action, you don't meet that requirement, because you can't take a standard action or move action, you can only take a move action. Someone who can take a standard action or move action has an option of which sort of action they wish to take - standard or move. Someone who can only take a move action has no option - they can only take a move action - so there's no 'or' applicable to them.

-Hyp.

 

[Infiniti2000]

You're reading the "or" more permissively than it's intended. You're saying "If you can take a standard action, or if you can take a move action, you're good". But that's not the restriction - the restriction is if you can take a standard action or move action. If you can't take a standard action, you don't meet that requirement, because you can't take a standard action or move action, you can only take a move action. Someone who can take a standard action or move action has an option of which sort of action they wish to take - standard or move. Someone who can only take a move action has no option - they can only take a move action - so there's no 'or' applicable to them.

Wrong 'or'. I'm talking about the or in the Charge section that seemingly allows you to do a restricted charge as a move action (the other half of the or), if you are restricted to move actions (the other half of the other or which conveniently matches up nicely with this one).

N'est-ce pas?

 

[Thurbane]

Uff da.

Star Wars Saga Edition: You can charge as a standard action, moving up to your base speed in a straight line and making a single attack. You get a +2 bonus to your attack roll, and a -2 penalty to your Reflex Defense.

Or in D&D, your AC. Much better rule. Doesn't help you if you're playing Organized, but I think all GMs should adopt the Star Wars version.

That's the houserule I use in my games - it just seems bizarre and counterintuitive that a zombie or someone under a slow effect can charge as a standard action, but a normal character cannot.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Wrong 'or'. I'm talking about the or in the Charge section that seemingly allows you to do a restricted charge as a move action (the other half of the or), if you are restricted to move actions (the other half of the other or which conveniently matches up nicely with this one).

Do you mean this one?

If you are able to take only a standard action or a move action on your turn, you can still charge, but you are only allowed to move up to your speed (instead of up to double your speed). You can’t use this option unless you are restricted to taking only a standard action or move action on your turn.

It still doesn't allow you to charge if you are restricted to taking only a move action. It only allows you to charge if you are able to take only a standard action or a move action.

Someone who can only take a move action can't take [a standard action or a move action]; they don't have the option of taking a standard action.

Sure, it's possible to read the sentence such that being able to satisfy one but not the other returns true, but that's not how the phrase [take only a standard action or a move action] is used. There are conditions - like Slowed, or Surprise Round, or whatever - that allow you to [take only a standard action or a move action]. A condition that only allows you to take a move action is not a condition that allows you to [take only a standard action or a move action], so it doesn't satisfy the requirement for a restricted charge.

-Hyp.

 

[Infiniti2000]

Sure, it's possible to read the sentence such that being able to satisfy one but not the other returns true, but that's not how the phrase [take only a standard action or a move action] is used.

Ah, that's the disconnect. While I wholeheartedly support the idea that you cannot charge in a move action (so this debate is entirely academic), I don't agree with your reasoning to dismiss the above logic. For example, under Action Types, it pretty much has the same sentence:

In some situations (such as in a surprise round), you may be limited to taking only a single move action or standard action.​

If what you say about this phrase is true, then the nauseating condition (for example) cannot restrict someone to only a move action. Or, rather, maybe it could but it would be an exception to the above, and therefore inconsistent.

 

[Hypersmurf]

In some situations (such as in a surprise round), you may be limited to taking only a single move action or standard action.​

If what you say about this phrase is true, then the nauseating condition (for example) cannot restrict someone to only a move action. Or, rather, maybe it could but it would be an exception to the above, and therefore inconsistent.

The nauseated condition is not one of the "some situations" listed; it behaves differently to those that allow a single move action or standard action. After all, that paragraph goes on to say that you can start or complete a full-round action by using a standard action, and if you're nauseated, you can't. The Nauseated condition is more restrictive than the "Restricted Activity" described by your quote.

Contrast:
A disabled character may take a single move action or standard action each round.
A staggered character may take a single move action or standard action each round.
A slowed creature can take only a single move action or standard action each turn.
Zombies have poor reflexes and can perform only a single move action or attack action each round.

with
Nauseated creatures are unable to attack, cast spells, concentrate on spells, or do anything else requiring attention. The only action such a character can take is a single move action per turn.

Can a nauseated character take a single move action or standard action each round? No, they don't have that option; they can only take a single move action, not a single move action or standard action.

-Hyp.