Chase Scenes, again...

[Kid Charlemagne]

I've been thinking about chase scenes again...

I've tried several things to run chases, but haven't come up with a good one yet. My most recent idea is to make it much more narrative, and less tactical - this coming from someone who loves his battlemats, BTW.

Essentially, each round of the chase, the pursuee could choose to use any skill they have to make their check, provided they can justify it in some way (to use Balance they might need to explain that they are running across a narrow board spanning two rooftops), and the pursuer can choose to use that same skill, or another one potentially at a penalty (let's say the pursuer didn't have Balance, but using Jump would work just as well). These checks would be modified by speed in the same way that the Jump skill is modified by speed - +4 for every ten feet above 30, -6 for every ten feet below. I hadn't thought of the mods for running, armor, etc - I'll have to think on how to incorporate them, as my assumption is double moves rather than run actions...

If the player or DM can justify it, almost any skill could be used in this way - if I want to justify using Intimidate to help me escape, I can say that I'm running through a crowd, and scaring them to get out of my way. It might be tougher to figure out a way to use your Heal skill to chase someone down, but I want to keep it as open as possible.

Certain terrain might limit the top speed (an urban chase might limit the top speed of any chase to 50, while a chase on the open road would have no top limit). Certain chases might allow for movement between terrains - an alley chase could turn into a rooftop chase, or certain characters could be chasing via alleys (say, on horseback, using Ride) while others are chasing via roofs (say, the fleeing Monks, using Jump and Tumble).

A set number of wins in the opposed check would result in an escape - let's say 5. A pursuee is assumed to start with 2 success (to prevent the chase from ending on round 1), so a pursuer would need to win two checks to catch up to their quarry. How to handle this? Perhaps they get a standard action whenever they catch their quarry...?

Thoughts? It's still a very nebulous idea...

 

[gamecat]

I like this system... I don't really have any feedback however.

It seems fairly solid...

 

[Tinker]

Yeah, seems cool. As DM if I expected a chase scene I'd plan some possible skill checks into the terrain - like stuff to balance over and stuff to jump and crowds to get through and places to hide and alleyways to spot. Though you can remain open to startling ideas if you want. If a PC is running away and the player seems stuck, if you were kind you could then drop hints.

 

[Ilium]

My only suggestion is to check out Hot Pursuit and Hot Pursuit On Foot if you haven't. It's an excellent chase system. Having said that, though, I really like your idea. I think it would make a really nice adjunct to Hot Pursuit On Foot actually. The fleeing character could make skill checks to place Obstacles in the pursuer's path (the gap and the crowd in your two examples).

 

[Kid Charlemagne]

My only suggestion is to check out Hot Pursuit and Hot Pursuit On Foot if you haven't. It's an excellent chase system. Having said that, though, I really like your idea. I think it would make a really nice adjunct to Hot Pursuit On Foot actually. The fleeing character could make skill checks to place Obstacles in the pursuer's path (the gap and the crowd in your two examples).

I'm aware of those books, but I'm really looking to devise a system that is simple enough to fit on a single page - or, really, ideally it should be something that is just such a clear extension of the existing skill system that no hard copy rules are even needed.

I've been thinking about placing obstacles in the path - I'm thinking that if you roll a natural 20, you get to place an obstacle in your opponent's path, and if you roll a natural 1, your opponent gets to place one in your path. The obstacle would tend to force the opponent to use a particular skill check - so you could force your pursuer to make a jump check to cross that gap, knowing that he's a wizard and probably has a poor jump check, etc. The exact nature of the obstacle is something the relevant person would choose.

Another thought: I'd like to have a system whereby you could take a standard action while continuing the pursuit. I'm thinking that it would be simple enough to take one, but that would give the opponent one success in addition to that round (so the pursuee could gain 2 successes in one round). That might be worth doing if it means you can cast Fly, or Expeditious Retreat and have a better chance of winning the next several checks...

 

[airwalkrr]

The system is nice. Often times however, I see little need for such a system. I don't usually find my players enjoying chase scenes as it means a whole lot of dice rolling an little action. It is one of those things that is dramatic in movies or video games but doesn't port easily to tabletop. Hence, I usually use the core mechanic of Con check in open terrain and Dex check in urban environments for opponents of matched speed. Otherwise, the faster opponent wins.

 

[Li Shenron]

To make the system simple is a tricky task!

Some comments:

Are you still going to use characters' Speeds to check how far the escapee is at every round, or do you ignore distance?

A chase may end unsuccessfully in different ways: the pursuer may (a) give up when he sees the distance becoming more and more every round, (b) drop tired and cannot continue, (c) lose sight of the fugitive, (d) being blocked by a 3rd party.

It's not necessary to cover all of these... but IMHO cases (a) and (c) require to somehow keep track of the distance between the two, if it's increasing too much.

So something on the top of my head that we could at least think about: Con checks to continue running are complicated: IIRC you can Run for a few rounds (=Con, not necessarily continuous) before you need to rest; to rest you must spend 1 minute moving not faster than 1 single move (so you cannot even double move). This is definitely TOO complicated for a chase scene (unless it's on a totally flat area) where you will most usually do double moves and not the actual Run action. I think we need a simplified proposal here!

In my opinion in almost all chase scenes you will be in an environment where effectively you cannot Run but only take double moves, since the Run speed requires complete absence of obstacles and a straight path.

Hiding should also definitely be an option for a fugitive!

 

[Kid Charlemagne]

The system is nice. Often times however, I see little need for such a system. I don't usually find my players enjoying chase scenes as it means a whole lot of dice rolling an little action. It is one of those things that is dramatic in movies or video games but doesn't port easily to tabletop.

Thats certainly the conundrum. Trying to minimize the dice-rolling and rules-consulting, and making it a series of simple opposed skill checks.

Are you still going to use characters' Speeds to check how far the escapee is at every round, or do you ignore distance?

Speed would modify the check - a character with a 30 foot move would have no additions or subtractions, but a character with a 40 ft move would get a +4 bonus, 50 ft move would get you a +8 bonus, etc.

It's not necessary to cover all of these... but IMHO cases (a) and (c) require to somehow keep track of the distance between the two, if it's increasing too much.

I'm kind of abstracting distance - using successes on opposed checks as opposed to actually tracking distance. So in case a) you might see that you're losing each check, and by a fair amount and decide to stop, and c) would be the same - if you lose sight of the opponent for a couple of rounds, you lose them once they reach 5 successes.

Hiding should also definitely be an option for a fugitive!

Absoutely! A hide check would be a really obvious way for a roguish kind of pursuee to evade pursuit. That would be handled this way:

Pursuee: uses Hide check to try and evade pursuit
Pursuer: Could use Spot to try and pursue, or if the situation warrants, I could see using something like Intimidate or Diplomacy ("Tell me where that guy went!").

 

[starwed]

This idea makes a lot of sense, and I've seen almost exactly the same system proposed before (or maybe adapted from a book.) One difference was that tokens were used; each party starts off with 2 or 3 tokens, and whoever wins an opposed check gets on of the other sides.

When one side has all the tokens, they've escaped/caught up. In general, it's a clean mechanic for any sort of situation you want to make more dramatic, not just chases. ^_^ I'll try and find the proposal when I've got some more spare time.

 

[Primitive Screwhead]

For my purposes using Hot Pursuit works well, but I agree there should be some sort of middle ground between no detail rules {RAW} and highly detailed rules {Hot Pursuit}

IIRC there was a thread a long time ago suggesting to make movement an opposed check, it went something like:

Chases are outside of normal initiative/combat rules. You may enter a chase from normal combat when one character {pursued} chooses the Run action with intent to flee the scene and the pursuerer chooses to follow with a Run action of thier own.

Each turn the characters roll a 'chase check' of D20 + {Move speed - 10} modified by either STR {flat out running}, DEX or WIS {moving through obstacles}, or CHR {chase through a crowd}
{note, usually both characters use the same modifier. When pursuing through a crowd their is a choice between Dex, Wis, or Chr as all three could apply}

If pursuer wins by more than 5, he closes one range
If pursued wins by more than 5, he extends one range

Ranges:
Close range, pursuer may attempt a melee attack and suffers a -5 penatly to next chase check.
Medium range, Pursued may attempt a bluff check to distract pursuer. Success nets a +5 to the next chase check. Failure results in a -5 to the next chase check
Long Range, Pursued may attempt to Hide instead of running. The pursued must stay hidden until the chase is at Extended range.
Extended range, The pursuit ends.

Ranged attack: At any range either character may attempt a ranged attack but suffers a -5 penatly to the next chase check.

Other Skill checks: At appropriate moments the Pursued can use nearby scenary to attempt to impede the pursuit such as climbing a wall or knocking the fruit cart into the path. The test is an opposed skill check of the appropriate physical skill. Success nets a +5 to the next chase check. Failure results in a -5 to the next chase check.

Ending the pursuit:
If the pursuer catches the pursued, usually via a trip attack, the character 'start' combat and re-roll initiatives.

Getting tired:
Characters can maintain a chase for a number of rounds equal to their Constitution.


EH. something like that