Chat.... Chat?

[LightPhoenix]

It wasn't an accusation, it was an observation.

No, it was quite clearly an accusation and admonition.

I don't use the chat, though I've been on it a couple of times. Everyone there was really nice.

I have to agree that having IRC is prudent. It may not be the only chat protocol, but it is the definitive chat protocol.

Is there an IRC client/program/plugin that will work with the new version of vbulletin? I don't know the answer to that. I have to imagine that any sort of board integration would likely have to be custom coded (until vbjirc is updated) to read the user db and filter a NickServ through that.

 

[Kzach]

No, it was quite clearly an accusation and admonition.

:\

The over-riding sentiment of users in the chatroom is that they don't want to see it separated from EN World, as is evidenced in this thread.

Michael clearly stated his requirements for keeping the two joined and none of these include the wishes of the IRC users. There is zero consideration for what the users want.

How is pointing this out anything but an observation?

But hey, like I said, it's not my board and not my chat server. I'm just pointing out things I feel should be pointed out.

 

[ToreadorVampire]

Is there an IRC client/program/plugin that will work with the new version of vbulletin? I don't know the answer to that. I have to imagine that any sort of board integration would likely have to be custom coded (until vbjirc is updated) to read the user db and filter a NickServ through that.

The first part of that is easy: A Mibbit embedded client is just plain HTML that can be poked on any web page. All it requires to run is Javascript support. "Here's one I made earlier" for the dumpshock.com chat: http://toreadorvampire.co.uk/dumpshock/ It's very minimal by design, since I'd like the DS admins to adopt it as their semi-official dumpshock chat (their website is currently without chat). Hence I've left it fairly easy to customise.

The second part (integrating with the boards user list) is a little harder, but not impossible, and does have a few implications. (here's where I get a little techie):

Integrating an IRC connection with the forum user database

• You would set the IRC channel to have a channel-key that is not shared with anybody in plaintext (lest it become comprimised and shared amongst the wrong people).
• You follow the instructions at http://wiki.mibbit.com/index.php/Widget#Securing_your_widget to make it so that it is impossible to use a Mibbit widget to connect to <the ENworld channel> from any other website
• Configure the channel key with the Mibbit backend (IE: Go to irc.mibbit.com #help and tell Axod the server, channel, and they channel key and he will configure it for you)
• Configure the Mibbit embedded widget to prevent nickname changes and joining other channels (if desired) - again - ask axod on irc.mibbit.com how to do this - he's real helpful
• You use server-side logic on the ENW chat page so that the widget does not appear unless the user is logged in using a valid boards nickname (that is not banned)

With that - you have your wish. However the implications (that I can think of) are:

• The only way to connect to the channel would be via the web page, which whilst not based on Java or Flash, will annoy some people
• You should probably prefix nicknames when connecting to the network (say connect using the nick en_Nickname) - in order to avoid nick collisions with other chatters that use the network. Say we had a chatter named It_Trolls (actually we do) - he uses the otherworlders.org network but is nothing to do with #dnd3e or ENWorld, (he lives under the bridge in #dumpshock). If you had a forums member named the same, your forums user wouldn't be able to connect, because their nick is already in use by someone else who (legitimately) got there first.

As a closing statement - whilst this is possible, it does go against the general (considered good-practice) "online community model" of allowing people to participate as much as possible without having to sign up. Some visitors who cannot access the chat without having a valid forums username will simply walk away, because they don't like signup forms. Of note is recent ALA article: http://www.alistapart.com/articles/signupforms

Also, I would strongly advise against using a chat that cannot be accessed via a normal IRC client. Being able to chat without having to have a full web browser open (monopolising your screen) is a huge plus that's going for #dnd3e, and the reason that I continued using it 5 years (or however long) ago when WotC changed their chat system to a "can only interact via a web page" model. When WotC did that a LOT of the regulars - including some really valued ones - vanished and dispersed to other chats.

Either way - even if #dnd3e is to be de-sponsored as the ENW official chat (and a new channel created named #enworld, with new admins and whatever) there is no reason not to use otherworlders.org for it.

Not that I care, I'm from the 'doesn't use ENWorld' camp, I'm just offering suggestions that will avoid the gradual breaking up of a community I have grown to love over the last 6/7 years. I barely even play D&D anymore yet I still connect to #dnd3e because I like the people.

 

[Seri]

Hi All,

I'd like to see the site and the chatroom attached, banned in one = banned on the other. It's something that hadn't been supported in the past.

I know I might not have much say as I gave up on the chatroom, not because of the people or otherworlders or bynw (love them all) but because the time commitment to helping tdc run the channel was overwhelming

I'd love to see changes made that increased channel usage and popularity of the channel.

My preference would be to stick on otherworlders (like it's been mentioned, bynw has been wonderful to us for a very long time) with IRC.

I understood that enworld had a chatroom to accommodate their users that enjoy and possibly prefer that type of communication. I think Enworld has surpassed just being a messageboard site and I don't understand why it would want to lose an aspect of service which has been in place for years. I believe switching to a flash based chat would do that.

If you want the relationship between the boards and the chatroom to improve, i think work needs to be done on both sides.

xmanii, let me know what you need. tdc will be chiming in on this as well. and thanks to Tor for providing the technical sides of things to support #dnd3e and offering solutions.

 

[thatdarncat]

At work, so I'll need to keep this short.

If it's not broke, don't fix it

I don't belive the chatroom in general is broken. MM, I appreciate what you are trying to do, but I don't believe the change you are proposing is good for the community as a whole - chat and forums.

Do you honestly believe that switching to flashchat will increase the userbase in the chatroom as well as the number of forum users using the chatroom?

I'd like to see the site and the chatroom attached, banned in one = banned on the other. It's something that hadn't been supported in the past.

I'd just like to point out that right now the chatroom moderators cannot see the moderators forum on EN World. Thus it is impossible for us to ensure that the same people are banned in the chatroom as well on the forums.

 

[thatdarncat]

Just as a side note, when will we be seeing various industry icons and designers in special IRC chat events organised with the power and influence of EN World in the chat room?

Running those events were a major factor in Seri and I burning out on the chatroom. If someone is willing to host, we'd gladly support them, but they are a major time sink and difficult to run.

 

[IIsi 50MHz]

Honest question: do the majority of the folks in #dnd3e see themselves as being in EN World's chat room, or in an IRC channel which happens to be about D&D? At least one person above has said they just use the IRC channel, and not the site, which seems to divorce the two somewhat.

I guess the identity thing is key.

Boards
I almost never use the boards...because I find web-based boards repulsive due to slowness, random feature limitations from site to site, and feeping creaturism (bloated with too many things not relevant to the actual messaging and that I don't care about). I /have/ experienced fast boards, including web boards, so I know that the "normal experience" these days is not the "best experience". I'd definitely use a much faster board system more.

I tend to use EN boards when someone links to them in IRC, when I help someone find something on them, and especially for more durable discussion amoung and notices for the channel operators.

Good Stuff (Identity)
The identity problem with the channel has always struck me as odd; why is the /official/ chat of the site not named something like #enworld? I'd strongly favour some kind of redirec in the IRC network, so a new channel with a relevant name could be made, and people trying to join the old channel (or trying to join a reasonable guess of the new channel, like "#dnd4e"...if not already in use...) would be shunted into the proper place.

Flash Rant
I'm unlikely to accept a Flash-only chat solution because I would not want to have to load a browser to access chat, rely on extensive logs, and Flash has never earned its name. Flash is slow the same way that Maytag equipment is one of the most frequently repaired of all brands; illusions of speed and reliability are created by marketing (and naming, for "Flash").

IIsi 50MHz
Chanop
irc://irc.otherworlders.org/#dnd3e

 

[thatdarncat]

The channel has always been #dnd3e because that's what Mark created it as years ago. Yes, it's a little outdated

But the first thing anyone joining the channel sees is "Welcome to the official EN World chat www.enworld.org"

That said, yes, a redirect to #enworld is doable. The channel name is just tradition.

 

[ToreadorVampire]

Just FYI I have pre-registered the #enworld name on otherworlders.org in case you'd like to use it. I see myself as a fairly neutral party in this process, since I'm not, nor have been, nor am interested in being a #dnd3e channel op.

I remember there was some confusion/funny transition periods/all sorts when the #dnd4e channel name got registered, and it passed hands several times before MinceR honourably transferred it over to xmanii.

To avoid all of that in case some random chatter tries to register it (not that I am sure that would happen, but better safe than sorry) - I've got it and am happy to pass it over to xmanii or michael_morris, or morrus, or whoever it gets delegated to if it is to be used by ENWorld.

Throw me an email, or catch me in #dnd3e if that's to happen.

 

[thatdarncat]

thanks Tore