Obryn
Hero
Bingo.
And I'd rather turn a bad player into a good player than toss her out before giving it a try.
-O
Cheating cheaters
- Thread starter Obryn
- Start date
And I'd rather turn a bad player into a good player than toss her out before giving it a try.
-O
jodyjohnson
Adventurer
I have a pair of those and the ironic thing is they are spin-down with all the high numbers on one half of the dice.
Oddly enough the first set of DDM dice were also spin-down and later banned from organized play.
Aluvial
Explorer
nerfherder
Adventurer
They have all the high numbers on one half of the dice, making it easier to roll a number in that physical grouping.
I'd ask myself if she cheats to win, or to avoid losing - losing face, losing a favorite character, etc.
People do not always cheat to win, sometimes they cheat just to keep up with the rest. If you have a highly competitive group where some people make very effective characters, it can create serious pressure to avoid becoming "dead weight".
It might be that all she needs to stop cheating is some assurance that it's not needed - maybe have a safety net for characters, so dice do not result in character loss. Or check if the game atmosphere is too competitive, and if "low performers" are pressured in any way to shape up.
People do not always cheat to win, sometimes they cheat just to keep up with the rest. If you have a highly competitive group where some people make very effective characters, it can create serious pressure to avoid becoming "dead weight".
It might be that all she needs to stop cheating is some assurance that it's not needed - maybe have a safety net for characters, so dice do not result in character loss. Or check if the game atmosphere is too competitive, and if "low performers" are pressured in any way to shape up.
I just had to post and say how abhorently misguided the entire first page is. Saying that it's okay for players to cheat in D&D? Absolute balls. It's disrespectful to the DM, but even moreso on the players. To cheat on rolls right in front of your friends, in plain sight, doesn't have an excuse.
Obryn
Hero
Well, everyone (except her) performs pretty equally, and nobody has a munchkined-out character. People don't tend to be overly competitive at the table, either.
I also run things pretty easily, and although 2 PCs have died so far in the campaign, there's been chances to save them.
Really, the only explanation I can see is that she wants to shine brighter than the other PCs.
-O
Storm Raven
First Post
And if she chooses to play D&D, then the accepted way to play is to, you know, use the rules that everyone else at the table is using.
Using your own logic, she is not only disdainful of the way the group she is in chooses to play, she is actively contemptuous of it, because she refuses to abide by the constraints of the system she agreed to sit down and play.
In my group she'd be shown the door and told not to come back unless she could play by the rules of the game being played at the time. D&D is not a self-help group, and playing by the same rules as everyone else at the table is not an optional element.
Fifth Element
Legend
I'm not using logic, I'm offering hypotheses for unknowns. I have no idea why she's doing it. (Apparently the DM doesn't either, judging by the last post. I suggest he/she find out.)
I would also point out the other players are actively contemptuous of how she chooses to play. Since they're in the majority at the table, I guess that's alright.
a whole bunch of good points have been brought up.
Here's a few more points (good or bad):
she may be cheating because:
-she rolls bad most of the time
-she wants to outshine everyone else
-she doesn't want to lose or let down the group
-she sees it as a competition
It's been observed that folks embezzle because they have opportunity with no safeguards to stop them (NPR had a great interview with a recently released embezzler). Cheating is the same thing. Folks do it, becuase they see an opportunity. And they get caught because they keep doing it.
If you were a family or community leader (priest) running a game of candy land with 5 year olds, and 1 child was cheating, do you not have an obligation to correct the behavior (to teach proper values)?
A Texas A&M student (Aggie) is pretty much required to take an oath stating "I will not lie, cheat or steal, nor tolerate anyone that does." At the minimum, this would imply excusing oneself from the company of such an individual. This oath is very similar to what military officers take in school (the A&M has a military background, so adoption of this oath makes sense).
There's good points that the player may have issues, and that fixing the issue may cause more problems. There's also valid points that the group does not have to put up with bad behavior.
When somebody does something bad, the group may forgive them for it. When somebody repeatedly does it, they are disrespecting that forgiveness.
An extreme example: It would be like a family forgiving a drunk driver for killing their child, and then to have the driver get drunk again and kill another member.
If you make a poor judgement, and the community forgives that, you must not repeat the mistake, or you deserve casting out from the community.
Cheaters do win. The do so at the expense of others.
Having a common rolling area and only approving dice rolls you see is a good safeguard. It won't stop cheating on character sheets (more money, better stats). It's simply reducing opportunity, which helps stop cheating.
the key questions are: would you accept a cheater in your group? Would you accept someone who steals 1 die during each game session. Would you accept someone who breaks something at your house during each session? Would you accept someone who barfs on your floor each session? Would you accept someone who swears at your family during each session?
My problem person resolution system is as follows: Correct, Deflect, Eject. Try to correct the behavior. Try to avoid putting the person in a situation where the behavior will occur. Lastly, if those 2 don't work, get rid of the person.
I think there's situations where Deflect should be tried first, and where Correct should be first. It depends on the behavior. However, Eject is always the last thing you should use, and you have to be willing to use it, when other methods fail.
The community sets the standard of acceptable behavior. Ultimately those who behave unacceptably, by definition are not accepted and must be removed.
Here's a few more points (good or bad):
she may be cheating because:
-she rolls bad most of the time
-she wants to outshine everyone else
-she doesn't want to lose or let down the group
-she sees it as a competition
It's been observed that folks embezzle because they have opportunity with no safeguards to stop them (NPR had a great interview with a recently released embezzler). Cheating is the same thing. Folks do it, becuase they see an opportunity. And they get caught because they keep doing it.
If you were a family or community leader (priest) running a game of candy land with 5 year olds, and 1 child was cheating, do you not have an obligation to correct the behavior (to teach proper values)?
A Texas A&M student (Aggie) is pretty much required to take an oath stating "I will not lie, cheat or steal, nor tolerate anyone that does." At the minimum, this would imply excusing oneself from the company of such an individual. This oath is very similar to what military officers take in school (the A&M has a military background, so adoption of this oath makes sense).
There's good points that the player may have issues, and that fixing the issue may cause more problems. There's also valid points that the group does not have to put up with bad behavior.
When somebody does something bad, the group may forgive them for it. When somebody repeatedly does it, they are disrespecting that forgiveness.
An extreme example: It would be like a family forgiving a drunk driver for killing their child, and then to have the driver get drunk again and kill another member.
If you make a poor judgement, and the community forgives that, you must not repeat the mistake, or you deserve casting out from the community.
Cheaters do win. The do so at the expense of others.
Having a common rolling area and only approving dice rolls you see is a good safeguard. It won't stop cheating on character sheets (more money, better stats). It's simply reducing opportunity, which helps stop cheating.
the key questions are: would you accept a cheater in your group? Would you accept someone who steals 1 die during each game session. Would you accept someone who breaks something at your house during each session? Would you accept someone who barfs on your floor each session? Would you accept someone who swears at your family during each session?
My problem person resolution system is as follows: Correct, Deflect, Eject. Try to correct the behavior. Try to avoid putting the person in a situation where the behavior will occur. Lastly, if those 2 don't work, get rid of the person.
I think there's situations where Deflect should be tried first, and where Correct should be first. It depends on the behavior. However, Eject is always the last thing you should use, and you have to be willing to use it, when other methods fail.
The community sets the standard of acceptable behavior. Ultimately those who behave unacceptably, by definition are not accepted and must be removed.
