Yaarel
🇮🇱 🇺🇦 He-Mage
In other words, in such a setting, all magic is personal.
D&D General Chris just said why I hate wizard/fighter dynamic
- Thread starter HammerMan
- Start date
Mind of tempest
(he/him)advocate for 5e psionics
elaborate, please?
I always pictured the monks hits counting as magic so they could keep up with the fighters and their magic things. It's just a different picture having the folks whose job is fighting having potentially a bunch of things they can't fight. (As was noted, of course, removing the need magic to hit requirement fixes that).
On a related note, I really like the idea of non-magical masterpiece weapons like the 3.5 Black Company book had.
Yaarel
🇮🇱 🇺🇦 He-Mage
It is the persons who are magical − the Wizard, the Monk − not the objects.
Now I'm wondering about the ethical issues in beings who were polymorphed into intelligent items...
(The new MtG set has creatures who can morph in to equipment, for example, and there's a cartoon my son watches with a living sword).
DND_Reborn
The High Aldwin
Aren't most (if not all) such creatures affected by silver weapons, though?
Apparently not all, but I couldn't find that list. This has the ones succeptible to silver or magic.
Obscure Rulings: Here's how silvered weapons actually work in D&D
Here are the official rulings for how silvered weapons work in Dungeons and Dragons 5th Edition, and what that means for your campaign.
dnddispatch.com
Sure, but magic items don't need to be part of the game, spellbooks are sort of essential if you run into an enemy wizard (especially on their home turf).
Well, maybe a couple have used reasons 1 and 5 but I don't recall many posts where people just blurt out "Fighters are bad."
As for 2-4, sure those are some of the reasons. Others, however, are more mundane:
- I want them to be able to do things at least as well as real life (the WR jumps, etc.). Yeah, I know, 5E isn't a sim, but still the rules are over-simplified IMO.
- I want them to be the best at things they should be the best at. Such as the expert rogue out wrestling the fighter... I could see the rogue escaping, sure, but not actually winning.
- I want them to be able to do some things that go beyond real life, since this is fantasy, like Xena for example. (Not overboard, but beyond.) For me this is the "heroic" level, not "superheroic". 200-ft jumps? Not for me, but 40-60 feet.. sure, especially in tiers 3 and 4.
As for the other pillars, each class historically had a role, but WotC's design allows most classes to break those roles and step on others' toes. I don't need a fighter to be as good at climbing as a rogue, but I wouldn't mind a ranger being able to, or to stealth as well, either, especially in favored terrain. Other than the Prodigy feat (which feats are optional and that is a racial feat anyway), there is no way to do this without houserules. There are other similar issues as well.
Now, for the people who want more extreme things, I agree it would be simpler in many ways to play a different game, but they don't really want to do that either.
Now, I know you aren't for enhancing fighters for combat. Other than some tactical improvements, I think fighters are pretty good (and others need to be brought back so fighters really can be the Best at combat). But what about exploration and social. You've said you don't want to step on others' toes, but aren't they stepping on the fighters' toes when it comes to combat??
The hard thing about exploration and social is that there are options available depending on the DM and primarily based on what people prioritize. If the DM allows feats, you can get expertise. There's nothing stopping your fighter PC from having decent charisma based skills. As a DM I occasionally allow strength to be used for intimidation, but that's just me. I think the background features can really help round out a vision of a PC.
Some people have pointed to spells like find the path, but that's more limited than some people realize. Charm person just makes them a friendly acquaintance, it doesn't mean they'll do whatever you want. Suggestion is powerful, but ... that's a discussion for another thread. For the most part? The skill monkey niche is left to bards and rogues with rangers getting some things for wilderness. Fighters get more ASIs than most other classes. If feats are allowed you can always take things like observant or prodigy, although I think prodigy is a bit too costly for what you get. At a certain point you can always multi-class.
It really, really depends on the campaign and individual though. Some people go entire campaigns never needing to roll a die for exploration or social encounter. Some people don't care if their fighter can lead the group through the woods as long as someone can. Personally I would like more flexibility and options at times when you gain levels, but I can probably say that about most classes.
But let's say we allow feats of amazing strength. I mean, sure. I allow athletics checks now to exceed the base assumption, your lifting capacity is that you can lift without training or giving extra effort. But I can see that a lot of DMs won't do that, which is too bad. The problem is that if you codify something like "As a fighter you can do great feats of strength, add your athletics proficiency modifier times 10 to determine what you can lift." Which, cool. I've trained to have proper form while bench pressing so I can do that. But then Mr Barbarian takes a look at that and wonders why they can't do it as well. The paladin chimes in too. Or worse, people that have been allowing exceeding the lift limit now feel like they can't unless the PC has this feature.
So without specific ideas it's hard to have a discussion.
doctorbadwolf
Heretic of The Seventh Circle
No, it doesn't. It is built so that it doesn't break when the DM is generous with magic items, and the APs are run that way because the designers know that more players enjoy getting magic items than don't, but the game is built with the assumption that the few characters with no magic of their own will find a way to deal magical damage on their attacks, if the DM is using things like demon princes. That's it.
And the bulk of the argument happening in this and the other related thread isn't about the fighter being able to assume magic items or not! It's about the fighter being able to push themselves to or past the limits of what a normal person could hope to do, or not. The camps are largely about whether Olympic level, sub-olympic level, or mythic level, physical prowess are what the fighter (and I assume the rogue though rogues have a lot more tools in their kit for shennanigans) should be capable of at high level.
Insulting other members
When was the last time you posted something other that "you're wrong" or high level magic destroys the game, that wizards "doesn't care about the 10+ game"? Because I just did a quick search and I don't see anything. Same for @doctorbadwolf for that matter.
