D&D General Chris just said why I hate wizard/fighter dynamic

[Vaalingrade]

I want my martial characters to be just that, martial characters. I don't want them to be magic users by another name. My solution is to throw so enough encounters at the group that the casters can do awesome things once in a while, martials can do cool things all the time.

How does more encounters fix the lack of cool things to actually do beyond 'I 'it 'em wit me sword... TWICE' and possibly 'I try to trip or other maneuver one in an encounter and fail through the power of bounded accuracy'.

 

[Jfdlsjfd]

After reading all those thread, I have concluded that the easiest fix is to stop playing martials. If you want to bash people with a stick, cast Shillelagh.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

But why rewrite the game? Level 11+ is already "superhero", and players can easily stop after level 10 − and apparently most games do anyway.

The game works fine now. Just stop at 10.

The issue is that people stop at 10 precisely because the game becomes less fun then.

One of the major reason it becomes less fun is that the caster/martial disparity has been ramping up since about level 5 and it's reached a point where people aren't into it anymore.

 

[Yaarel]

Personally, in my games, the proficiency bonus = tier.

• Proficiency +1: "Level Zero", high school
• Proficiency +2: Levels 1-4: apprentice, college student
• Proficiency +3: Levels 5-8: adventurer, professional
• Proficiency +4: Levels 9-12: master, expert (1e "name levels")
• Proficiency +5: Levels 13-16: grandmaster, great, arch, leader, founder
• Proficiency +6: Levels 17-20: legend (Wish)
• Proficiency +7: Levels 21-24: epic

So for a table that wants to be "realistic", it makes sense to me, the game can stop at either level 8 (adventurer) or at level 12 (master).

 

[Cadence]

But why rewrite the game? Level 11+ is already "superhero", and players can easily stop after level 10 − and apparently most games do anyway.

The game works fine now. Just stop at 10.

They might want to still play the game with those characters and still develop/advance them in some ways -- just with the power level asymptoting out instead of continuing to increase unabated.

 

[Filthy Lucre]

How does more encounters fix the lack of cool things to actually do beyond 'I 'it 'em wit me sword... TWICE' and possibly 'I try to trip or other maneuver one in an encounter and fail through the power of bounded accuracy'.

Ultimately, to give martials more cool and impactful things to do, shouldn't we lean more into the tactical war-game element? If so, that's a problem since WotC's current trend is not toward more rules complexity or granularity.

 

[Yaarel]

They might want to still play the game with those characters and still develop/advance them in some ways -- just with the power level asymptoting out instead of continuing to increase unabated.

I can play a high level character that no longer advances in levels.

The objective of the game becomes more about the narrative (building a wizard academy, leading a nation, running a big business), and less about ringing up videogame points.

I assume acquiring powerful magic items is still ok for the no-magic Fighter players?

 

[DND_Reborn]

@HammerMan

And this is the issue: already you have votes for elevating martials and votes for nerfing casters.

People also discuss allowing the tiers to make the difference. Don't want super heroics, stop at level 10, just ignore the other 10 levels. Then there is doing "something else" after level 10 for the people who don't want super heroics.

I've even seen people posting about how they want more power even at level 1.

 

[eyeheartawk]

For me the old joke about The Book of Nine Swords being "The Book of Weeaboo Fighting Magic" always rang true and definitely still does. 5E more than ever decided to address the problem by just making most classes also casters just about. So, especially at later levels, it feels like you're watching a typical fantasy anime where dual wielding martial characters are running up dragons vertically, upside down while they have magical glowing eyes and glowing fists etc etc.

Which, to be fair, is likely pretty unavoidable to support higher level play in a epic fantasy game. WFRP doesn't have this problem say, but WFRP is most definitely not an epic fantasy game.

 

[Cadence]

I can play a high level character that no longer advances in levels.

The objective of the game becomes more about the narrative (building a wizard academy, leading a nation, running a big business), and less about ringing up videogame points.

Right, but it feels like a lot of players like gaining things in the classic advancement sense now and then anyway. So smaller things could be added (some flexibility in spells without increasing power, additional.xombat maneuvers, etc...)