D&D General Chris just said why I hate wizard/fighter dynamic

[FrozenNorth]

Meanwhile, I think it is ok for a background to grant a pertinent weapon proficiency, like a longbow for a Deer Hunter background.

I thought the Deer Hunter background came with firearms proficiency.

 

[DND_Reborn]

So while the fighter gets 4-5 magical items to measure up with the wizard, the wizard gets 4-5 magical items (or just crafts them himself) to outclass the fighter again.

IME any items a wizard gets just help them survive (boost AC and the like) more than augment their own power. Even powerful items don't usually increase their power, just allow them more options.

Meanwhile the fighters gain items that actually allow to do things they otherwise can't.

 

[Yaarel]

I thought the Deer Hunter background came with firearms proficiency.

No. That one came with a Gamblers tool set.

 

[Yaarel]

IME any items a wizard gets just help them survive (boost AC and the like) more than augment their own power. Even powerful items don't usually increase their power, just allow them more options.

Meanwhile the fighters gain items that actually allow to do things they otherwise can't.

Too true.

I want to see magic items that augment and diversify caster classes.

 

[FrozenNorth]

IME any items a wizard gets just help them survive (boost AC and the like) more than augment their own power. Even powerful items don't usually increase their power, just allow them more options.

Meanwhile the fighters gain items that actually allow to do things they otherwise can't.

Wizards often seek magical items that increase the DC of their spells. At level 11, this is often 17 even without enhancements. A creature trying to save against DC 19, even with magical resistance, is going to fail that spell often, particularly when a weak save is targeted.

The other magic items that wizards often seek are those that allow them to cast additional spells.

 

[DND_Reborn]

Wizards often seek magical items that increase the DC of their spells.

They can seek them out, but there is less than a handful that improve DC IIRC? So, IME a caster is lucky to run across one such item. But if you have a high-magic item style game that could certainly be different.

At level 11, this is often 17 even without enhancements.

Sure, but DC 17 against a proficient save is barely 50/50. If the caster is +9, the target is likely +7 or better in proficient saves.

A creature trying to save against DC 19, even with magical resistance, is going to fail that spell often, particularly when a weak save is targeted.

For non-proficient saves, I would agree with the word "often", which to me means at least 65% or higher fail rate. With magical resistance is hardly ever "often" likely to fail the save. After all, if you failed 70%, with advantage that is less than 50%--not "often" IMO.

The other magic items that wizards often seek are those that allow them to cast additional spells.

Agree! Other than helping their defense, most magic items are for casting more spells. While this increases the frequency of usefulness, it doesn't increase power IMO. Also, most spells that items can cast aren't of the real "game changing" nature since they aren't 6th+ level spells.

 

[FrogReaver]

Agree! Other than helping their defense, most magic items are for casting more spells. While this increases the frequency of usefulness, it doesn't increase power IMO

A wizard can cast 1 level 9 spell a day. Is it. Would they not be more powerful if they could cast 10?

 

[Scars Unseen]

Go back to different XP amounts for the diff classes. Wizards were the slowest to level up but became ultra powerful at higher levels.

I agree that this is a method that at least mitigates the problem (though it does not, in my mind, solve it), but I think this is also somewhat incompatible with the way a lot of people handle leveling these days. I would venture to say that outside of sandbox style campaigns, milestone leveling may be the more popular approach at this point. It could be adapted by doing milestone XP gain, but I'm not sure how many people who don't want to deal with the minutiae of XP rewards would welcome the complication of asynchronous leveling. Seems like it'd be better (if not simpler) to rebalance class design than to balance XP gain.

I thought there was a party behind the fighter? So while the fighter gets 4-5 magical items to measure up with the wizard, the wizard gets 4-5 magical items (or just crafts them himself) to outclass the fighter again.

Wizards often seek magical items that increase the DC of their spells. At level 11, this is often 17 even without enhancements. A creature trying to save against DC 19, even with magical resistance, is going to fail that spell often, particularly when a weak save is targeted.

The other magic items that wizards often seek are those that allow them to cast additional spells.

I think the best solve for this is to largely get rid of those sort of utilitarian magic items. To an extent, I get the concept of "boosting" items. The design space is well known, so it's easy to predict how they'll work when you add them to the game. But they have the same problem as ASIs: they are both utterly boring and simultaneously the obvious choice when it comes to bumping your character's power.

So I say (and I say the same to post-creation ASIs as well) get rid of them altogether. No +1 swords, no "necklace of fireballing you harder." Actually take the time to design unique items instead of filling in a chart of bonuses. And to help do that, clear out some of the spells that tend to cause major power imbalances, and use similar ideas (but not 1:1 copies) when designing items. Make twinned door knockers that connect any two doors they're attached to. Make a sword and sheath that transfers any wounds taken by sword's wielder to the sheath's holder. Make a pair of glasses that makes a target immobile for as long as the wearer also doesn't move. All kinds of things you could that would just be much more fun than simple bonuses, even if they're harder to balance.

 

[Minigiant]

IME any items a wizard gets just help them survive (boost AC and the like) more than augment their own power. Even powerful items don't usually increase their power, just allow them more options.

Meanwhile the fighters gain items that actually allow to do things they otherwise can't.

Actually caster magic items increase their spells known/prepared and slots by taking them off their personal self.

75% of the "OP Casters" is casters using wands and scrolls to not waste slots.

 

[DND_Reborn]

A wizard can cast 1 level 9 spell a day. Is it. Would they not be more powerful if they could cast 10?

First, you didn't include the second part of that quote, where I specified about items only casting 5th and lower level spells in general, if not completely...

So, your response is an extreme case which IME no game will ever see by jumping up to 17th level and 9th level spells.

Anyway, like I said it increases the frequency of usefulness, but not power.

Actually caster magic items increase their spells known/prepared and slots by taking them off their personal self.

75% of the "OP Casters" is casters using wands and scrolls to not waste slots.

Also a case of increasing usefulness (by allowing casters to reserve prepared spells and slots for non-combat uses), but now power.

If that is the issue with OP casters, don't hand them out. We find most such items pretty useless IME, but that is just my experience.