D&D General Chris just said why I hate wizard/fighter dynamic

[DND_Reborn]

people complained about giving a 7th-9th level fighter a sub par 1st level spell

Who is doing that? Not me, I know I have posted a few times about how many spells could be mirrored by skilled individuals without saying it resorts to magic.

 

[Oofta]

at level 20 fireball 15 times +2 or 3 signiture spell... most adventures don't have adventure days that need more than 15 fireballs per day... but if you do you cann fall back to flame bolt most likelt + to hit equal ot better to the fighter and 4d10 damage... and that is NOT optimized in fact burning all your spells on fireball is dumb bad and still better then the fighter

You never have to worry about collateral damage? Being in a building and setting it on fire? Am I the only DM who occasionally has to warn the wizard that they're in a warehouse with goods packed in incredibly flammable straw before they cast fireball?

I mean sure. Once in a while meteor storm is an awesome spell. Fireball is great if all of your opponents aren't immune to fire, there's no one counterspelling you and every encounter happens on an empty field. Oh, and the wizard is an evoker so they're not toasting their buddies as well.

 

[Oofta]

okay I have players who want to play a martial non magic character that can effect the world and story in similar ways to casters of half there levels... how do I do that?

By accepting that it's not a competition and that they have a different role to play. By doing whatever makes sense to you as a DM to not have 2 encounters between long rests, there are different ways of doing it. By setting up scenarios where fireballs aren't a good option. By writing down on a piece of paper what different PCs are good at and setting up scenarios where those skills come in handy.

 

[Maxperson]

at level 20 fireball 15 times +2 or 3 signiture spell... most adventures don't have adventure days that need more than 15 fireballs per day... but if you do you cann fall back to flame bolt most likelt + to hit equal ot better to the fighter and 4d10 damage... and that is NOT optimized in fact burning all your spells on fireball is dumb bad and still better then the fighter

So if the DM isn't giving the proper number of encounters, he is the one causing the problem. The game is balanced around 6-8 medium and hard encounters. Less than that is going to unbalance things in favor the casters. In any case, one flame bolt for 4d10 damage is vastly inferior to 4 attacks at 2d6+15 per attack, with superiority dice tossed to a few of those.

 

[DND_Reborn]

okay I have players who want to play a martial non magic character that can effect the world and story in similar ways to casters of half there levels... how do I do that?

Depends on how they are trying to do it. I know it is hardly a great solution, but the idea of having a domain and army and such allowed martials in prior editions to do things and influence the game in ways casters couldn't match IME.

If you want a shenanigan solo here-and-now ability, you are going to fall back to the super-hero role IMO.

 

[Mort]

Its worth noting that even D&D novels don't reflect the overpowered absurdity that is a D&D 5th level caster. Because it's narratively boring to have every issue countered by casting "Solve Problem".

Have you read any of the Elminster novels? He casts "solve problem" basically on every page of most of them!

 

[HammerMan]

LOL don't worry about it. My point was just if people are making those types of comparisons in your game, I understand why you have the view you do. I don't have the same types of issues with fighter-types (although I certainly have agreed there are some) because I don't see those sort of comparisons--to me they would be meaningless.

not just at my game (where we normally do no item comparison) at this board

infact i just by max was told my fighter was not optimized enough

 

[HammerMan]

Who is doing that? Not me, I know I have posted a few times about how many spells could be mirrored by skilled individuals without saying it resorts to magic.

no I think that is Oaf it is common on here though

 

[HammerMan]

You never have to worry about collateral damage? Being in a building and setting it on fire? Am I the only DM who occasionally has to warn the wizard that they're in a warehouse with goods packed in incredibly flammable straw before they cast fireball?

again fireball stinks... this is useing a 3rd level more in line with a 4th though spell over and over to prove a point. Every 6th+ slot has MUCH better uses.

I mean sure. Once in a while meteor storm is an awesome spell. Fireball is great if all of your opponents aren't immune to fire, there's no one counterspelling you and every encounter happens on an empty field. Oh, and the wizard is an evoker so they're not toasting their buddies as well.

again I used fireball as my example becuse it ISNT the best spell

 

[HammerMan]

By accepting that it's not a competition and that they have a different role to play.

okay and if they want to play with options and cool things to do they have to play spell casters?!?

By doing whatever makes sense to you as a DM to not have 2 encounters between long rests, there are different ways of doing it.

okay well my style is very up in the air... some days you will have 10+ encounters with bearly a chance for a short rest, but some days may just be 1 encounter. Other days may be 4 encounters but with hours between them. Mine is more story based... but I see little diffrence when Kurt runs dungeon crawls or Becky runs weird court drama....

By setting up scenarios where fireballs aren't a good option.

they are almost NEVER the best option for a 20th level wizard... that is why I used it as the example

By writing down on a piece of paper what different PCs are good at and setting up scenarios where those skills come in handy.

"CAN ALTER REALITY" "Good with 3 skills/tools" and "Hit things good and take a beating" BUT that first one can reprep to auto pass the skill/tool checks or buff himself to take a beating and his base alter reality is still good to great damaage..."