Chris Pramas: Why wont GW/BL keep wfrp v2 on the market as pdf's?

[Frostmarrow]

It's got me thinking if WotC is going to go this way too? I've read several times that the Star Wars minis were a huge cash cow that that was why no rpg products were being released. Will we see D&D head this way with more minis being produced and all the rulebooks having mini game stats (Here's how to use this in you mini game section)?

No, I don't think so. WoTC will continue to support DDM and D&D. Wizards situation is completely different from GW's. WoTC's treasure is the D&D experience.

Wizards have been discussing (its okay its just talk) exchanging their audience, removing the DM from the table, and all sorts of anti-RPG ideas. However, they have always opted not to stray too far from the D&D experience. They know that without it they have to begin anew and that's not worth it.

 

[DarkKestral]

It's got me thinking if WotC is going to go this way too? I've read several times that the Star Wars minis were a huge cash cow that that was why no rpg products were being released. Will we see D&D head this way with more minis being produced and all the rulebooks having mini game stats (Here's how to use this in you mini game section)?

In the case of Star Wars minis, AFAIK, it was a license reason; Once the licensing situation changed (AKA the release of the Eps. I-III trilogy) the financial and licensing outlook probably started favoring releasing more RPG material, so it made sense to release more material.

Unlike Star Wars, in the case of DDM and D&D, WotC owns the IP, and so can make as many products as they want per line if they so wish. It certainly appears they have a specific combined amount of products they expect to release, but if both lines are profitable, there's no reason they can't continue on with both because they could simply add to the lineup without removing product. If the product is something that is a narrow sub-category (the Gargantuan minis, for example), then there might be some schedule shuffling, but that is due to the likelihood of product not selling. In short: don't bet on the RPG going away any time soon. They've invested a lot in 4th ed, so it's unlikely Hasbro will shoot themselves in the foot by letting the RPG stagnate soon after launch, particularly if Design and Dev for both products is interlinked like I believe it is.

 

[Sitara]

Please note that while rpg's may not make all that much money if you factor in printing costs and all, DnD is the exception. And its an exception with a HUGE margin.

DnD is not just the market leader of rpg's, its the leader by (again!) a HUGE margin. With 4e, that is probably just going to grow, especially as one of its biggest competitors (wfrp v2) is gone.

 

[Cergorach]

It's also not wise to compare WotC with GW, GW is not doing to well, while WotC isn't doing to bad. GW is primarily a miniature company, while WotC also has succesfull CCGs and CMGs to round out their portfolio. WotC ousources all of their production (printing and mini manufacturing), GW does their mini production inhouse. The tin prices have been hit very hard the last decade (there is a very good reason why they are moving to plastic kits), that cuts deep into their profit margin. GW is currently investing everything they've got in a reorganisation (they are currently operating at a loss), so it's not that strange that they are closing departments down that aren't their core business and/or really big money makers (the RPGs don't sell as well as their novels). Their novels are about twice as expensive as their D&D counter parts...

GW doesn't have an infrastructure (yet) to sell pdfs, they do have a lot of free material in pdf format, so they do have the expertise to produce them. GW is a company that prefers to do almost everything themselves (points at the 335 GW stores), so I doubt that they would use RPGnow or DTRPG.

 

[WayneLigon]

By dropping Black Industries, WFRP and 40KRP they are in effect protecting the fluff from getting out to the fans in a less expensive way. They might have done surveys that show minis-players are abandoning the wargames in favor of the RPGs. GW can't have this, of course.

I would find that extremely unlikely. I know of a couple dozen people that meet regularly to play the minis game, while no-one but myself has ever played the RPG or has any desire to play the RPG. I would think that they simply looked at it and said 'this doesn't make us enough money for the time and effort we've put into it'.

 

[kenobi65]

In the case of Star Wars minis, AFAIK, it was a license reason; Once the licensing situation changed (AKA the release of the Eps. I-III trilogy) the financial and licensing outlook probably started favoring releasing more RPG material, so it made sense to release more material.

I'm trying to remember the details, but the primary issue, from what I read at the time (2-3 years ago) was that WotC's license only allowed them to release 5 or 6 Star Wars RPG products per year (and the Minis products were covered by the RPG license). When they started doing the SW Minis, WotC soon realized that they made a lot more money on the Minis than they did on "true" RPG products (and that the Minis products were far, far easier to get through the approval process at Lucasfilm than written products were).

I'm not sure what's changed since then; I suspect that the license changed, but I could be dead wrong.

 

[Kid Charlemagne]

I'm not sure what's changed since then; I suspect that the license changed, but I could be dead wrong.

I'm pretty sure that's the case - I think they split apart the mini and RPG parts of the license so that they could do both.

 

[TheAuldGrump]

So to be perfectly clear, I have no idea what GW's plans are regarding the RPG line. They may indeed decide to keep the books in print. As for PDFs, I suspect they haven't embraced them because of concerns about piracy.

Oh, and Bryan Ansell was bought out of GW almost 20 years ago now. He currently runs a minis company called Wargames Foundry.

Which makes some darned nice minis. Lots of variety, wide range of lines, and semi-reasonable prices. The pirates line, the faerie line, and their mercenary orcs lines are some of my favorites, some of the fey standing in for Vampires in my homebrew game.

I own about 200 of their minis - the only problem is that their catalog is a pain in the derrière.

Sorry, I am a minis fan... and one who enjoys painting his own.

The Auld Grump

 

[cignus_pfaccari]

I would find that extremely unlikely. I know of a couple dozen people that meet regularly to play the minis game, while no-one but myself has ever played the RPG or has any desire to play the RPG. I would think that they simply looked at it and said 'this doesn't make us enough money for the time and effort we've put into it'.

I know quite a few people who expressed interest in the RPG who *also* play the minis game. And I don't play it at all.

OTOH, it really might not be the best use of their IP. And if they're in a money crunch, it might just not be worth it.

Brad

 

[The Game Guy]

So to be perfectly clear, I have no idea what GW's plans are regarding the RPG line. They may indeed decide to keep the books in print. As for PDFs, I suspect they haven't embraced them because of concerns about piracy.

Like that matters anyhow. Someone with a scanner and time on their hands can create a .pdf and piracy can happen anyway.

Note: I am totally against RPG piracy. RPG companies make little money as is and it's not right