Chronomancy

[Neko V]

I've made a thread asking for help with this in a few places, though none of them were too much help. So I googled "D&D forum" and clicked the first result other than Wizard's official forum, and here I am. Hopefully joining this forum proves useful to me~

Anyways, on to the point of the thread... One of my friends is running a 3.5 game where he's requiring everyone to make a custom class or race. I've already had one made for a long time now, but it was mostly made just as a joke (though it's actually balanced enough that he's already approved it). However, I decided that I might as well make a more serious class since everyone else is taking forever with theirs.

I've already got the basics for it. The new class is a chronomancer. All of its spells are going to be somehow time-related. The class uses a power point system like the psionic classes for casting spells; since all of its spells will somehow warp time, certain spells that have a major impact on the timeline will have a chance of generating points of paradox. Here's how paradox works:
After a chronomancer rests to restore spell points, any paradox that (s)he has accumulated is immediately subtracted from his or her spell point pool; if (s)he has an amount of paradox equal to or greater than his/her maximum spell points, (s)he is shunted into an alternate timeline where any of the severe changes (s)he made to his/her home timeline would have occurred naturally. In order to return, the chronomancer's party (on their home timeline) must reverse the changes made by the chronomancer to reduce his/her paradox below its maximum limit, then use a limited wish/miracle spell to pull the chronomancer back to their timeline.

So. With this paradox mechanic in mind, I need ideas for time-related spells for the class. Basically things I need to know are:

1. How powerful should aging/de-aging spells be? Most characters, besides spellcasters if someone really wants the mental stat bonuses, are likely to be created at a younger age; thus, I'm ~90% sure that I'll make de-aging spells a lot weaker than aging spells.

2. What level should the spells be? Sure, aging and de-aging are pretty basic ideas when you think of "time-manipulating spellcaster," but they kind of hit a secondary HP bar that can't be healed and which nothing else has access to.
Also, thinking that there should be lesser/normal/greater versions of the spells just to take up space. Maybe lesser aging would make the target grow 1d6/two spell point years older, normal aging 1d6/ spell point years, and greater aging 1d8/point years. I'd probably use d3s or d4s for lesser/normal de-aging and d6s for greater de-aging.

3. How much paradox should things generate? This really depends on the spell, so I don't supposed I'll get an answer until either someone posts a spell idea with paradox already tacked on or I post some spells of my own, which I may do later (depending on how popular this thread becomes).
Basically. I want to be careful not to have spells that are practically suicidal when the character first becomes able to cast them, but at the same time I don't want particularly powerful spells for their spell level to generate so little paradox that somebody, upon reaching the upper levels, could erase people from existence left and right by reaching back in time and preventing them from being born.

4. What kind of things could I use paradox for, besides being the chronomancer's drawback? It's the main unique mechanic that sets them apart from other spellcasters, besides using a spell point variant rather than the standard spells/day. I've considered something along the lines of a spell which creates a point in space where two timelines converge, giving all creatures within the area a chance to be pulled to the opposite timeline based on the caster's paradox.

5. Could I get away with giving the chronomancer access to spells like Time Stop and Temporal Stasis at a lower level than other casters, since they fit the theme that the class is based around?

Even with all of the spells I already have on the spell list it looks pretty bare. A few spell levels are still completely blank. That may or may not change based on adjustments I make after reading responses to this thread. Still, any suggestions for spells related to accelerating, slowing, or otherwise distorting time are welcome.

 

[Celebrim]

Time Manipulation falls into the category of things for which it is very hard to do in any game system. A Chronomancer is like a Speedster in a supers game - difficult to do well. I seriously doubt you could have made a more difficult request than this one.

Oh, and welcome to the forums.

So, to begin with, I hate your Paradox mechanic. It's got all sorts of problems from a DM perspective:

1) When it screws you, it screws the whole party. This has the potential of causing player conflict.
2) If it doesn't screw the whole party, it shunts your character into an alternate universe where I suddenly have to deal with your character as a separate party.
3) When its screw you, it screws the whole campaign. All the sudden I have to deal with this whole 'alternate timeline' thing I wasn't planning on. Forcing me to invent a new reality every time that you made certain choices does not sound like fun to me.
4) It's vague. The part about paradox reducing how many spells you can cast is concrete and a pretty good mechanic. You generate paradox and you get less spells tommorrow. I get that, and I like it. The whole 'shift to another timeline' bit strikes me as something that is likely to either be really irritating or easily ignored depending on how much effort the DM wants to put into it. My guess is that 'easily ignored' is going to be the outcome in most cases, because its not like Wish/Miracle are easily accessible over the course of most of most campaigns.

Ok, so as for your questions:

"1. How powerful should aging/de-aging spells be?"

First of all, they should not in most cases age a character a fixed number of years. That's to hard to balance. Instead, they should age a character a fixed number of age categories.

Aging is generally alot less powerful than de-aging. The exception is elderly wizard types.

Aging effects are generally of one of three categories:

a) Nuisance: You don't age enough for there to be any signficant effects.
b) Save or Maim (Permenent Suck): You age enough that its debilitating.
c) Save or Die: You age enough that you are rendered helpless or dead.

There are a host of basic problems here. First of all, categories 'a' and 'b' turn into category 'c' conditionally where that condition is 'you are older or younger than expected'. An elderly NPC subject to a category 'b' spell is effectively facing 'Save or Die'. A very young NPC subject to even a category 'a' spell might be turned into a helpless infant, which is effectively 'Save or Die'. This makes 'a' and 'b' very hard to balance.

Making the problem worse is if the spell makes the aging or deaging permenent. Aging and De-aging are very hard to heal effects, especially compared to hit point damage or even ability damage. 'Save or Maim' aging must be reverable else its the most powerful 'Save or Maim' aging. Similar problems with 'Save or Die' aging. 'Save or Die' aging must be balanced with other spells that cause death without the possibility of resurrection.(!!!)

You also have to consider the impact of aging magic on the campaign world. If its well known how to de-age some, then you have the high probability that the sufficiently wealthy section of the population is effectively immortal. This has a huge social, religious and political impact on the campaign world.

2) You see the problem, but the mechanics you are thinking of will only make the problem worse.

Nuisance Aging is like: Fourth level, target ages a number of years equal to half the present age category at a cost of like 6 power points. Not scalable by applying more power points, you have to spend another action.
Save or Maim Aging is like: Fifth level, target ages to the midpoint of the next age category at a cost of like 10 power points. Not scalable by applying more power points; you have to spend another action.
Save or Die Aging is like: Seventh level, target ages an age category per 10 power points expended.

Reduce by two levels and a couple of power points if the target reverts to their normal age at the end of the spells duration.

The problem with aging a fixed number of years is that its devestating to a short lived race/creature (a wolf for example), but pretty much meaningless to a long lived one (like an elf).

I should also point out that aging effects tend to be much more devestating to PC's than to NPC's, because an NPC probably only gets hit once but a PC has to worry about cumulative effects over the course of a campaign.

3) Any spell which you would normally assign an XP cost to it to control the spell's effect on the campaign should create paradox as well as or instead of the normal cost. Certainly any spell that causes permenent aging (rather than reverts at the end of the spell duration) should cause paradox. In fact, any spell with a permenent effect should probably cause at least 1 paradox. A few others should cause paradox if thematically appropriate (global or area of effect spells).

'Prevent Someone From Being Born' is basically 'save or die with no chance of resurrection'. There are equivalent effects that aren't quite as flashy, so its oddly not one of the worst offenders. I'd put it at like 3 paradox if all it does is erase the character. The real problem here is if it undoes everything that character has ever done, that is, does it also erase the characters offspring, resurrect anyone the character has ever killed, etc.? In that case, its like 9th level and 30 paradox and as a DM I'd seriously consider a ban on the spell not because of its power level, but simply because of the headache it would cause for me as a DM to reinvent the campaign each time it was cast.

4) If paradox is a resource, it's not a drawback. You have to be very careful with that.

5) No. You could get away with the character casting them more times per day than an equivalent level caster, but you can't get away really with making them accessable significantly sooner.

 

[Celebrim]

Spell ideas - generally speaking, you can cast anything that manipulates time, manipulates motion, sees into the future (or past!), or which manipulates luck (ei, grants or forces rerolls).

Haste
Expeditious Retreat (or anything else that changes your effective movement rate)
Slow
'Spend an Action to give another Character an extra action'
Augury
Divination, or anything else that let's you see into the future.
'Know the result of a die roll before you throw it, giving you the option of taking that action or avoiding it.' (cantrip)
As above, but for someone else.
Moment of Precience
'Danger Sense' (Any sort of variation that prevents you being surprised or gives you some bonus to Reflex, Initiative, or other minor combat bonuses such as gaining 'Uncanny Dodge'. This should probably be a series, like 'Perfect Timing', etc.)
Jump 4 Rounds into the Past, Get a Do Over (high level, causes paradox)
Know the Current Time Exactly (cantrip)
Finish a long term task faster than normal (for example, craft in less time)
'Time to Think': Take 20 on an Intelligence check (including Knowledge skills)
'Relive the Moment': 1st level, in responce to a succesful attack on you, as a free action, force the attacker to reroll the attack.
'Accelerated Motion': 3rd level, in responce to a successful attack on you, as a free action, you move 100 times faster than normal for a brief moment and the attack automatically misses.
'Slow Missiles': Missile weapons fired at you enter bubbles of slow time, giving you a +4 insight bonus to AC with respect to them.
'Nearby Reality': low level, close range burst, combat is filled with random chance. you choose a nearby alternate timeline where events were more in your favor - shift every character in range by 5'. Causes 1 paradox.
'Sift Reality': 3rd level, You sift through all the possible futures and from the many future paths select the one that results in sucess. Take 20 on any skill check.
'Greater Sift Reality': 6th level, as 'Sift Reality' but as an immediate action and it applies to any roll.

 

[jefgorbach]

Given this cross-thread a look as it describes several of the better chronomancy works to date.
http://www.enworld.org/forum/rpg-in...ishing-chronomancer-time-travel-everyone.html

Also, http://www.enworld.org/forum/d-d-le...alms-time-travel-updated-d-d-3rd-edition.html presented a 9th level Time Conduit spell for the forgotten realms setting as an idea.

 

[1Mac]

There is a "Temporal Mage" class from AEG's "Magic" book from 2002. It's at least partially transcribed, along with other details about chronomancy, at the Grand OGL Wiki. I haven't looked at it enough to comment on it.

 

[Neko V]

So, to begin with, I hate your Paradox mechanic. It's got all sorts of problems from a DM perspective:

1) When it screws you, it screws the whole party. This has the potential of causing player conflict.
2) If it doesn't screw the whole party, it shunts your character into an alternate universe where I suddenly have to deal with your character as a separate party.
3) When its screw you, it screws the whole campaign. All the sudden I have to deal with this whole 'alternate timeline' thing I wasn't planning on. Forcing me to invent a new reality every time that you made certain choices does not sound like fun to me.
4) It's vague. The part about paradox reducing how many spells you can cast is concrete and a pretty good mechanic. You generate paradox and you get less spells tommorrow. I get that, and I like it. The whole 'shift to another timeline' bit strikes me as something that is likely to either be really irritating or easily ignored depending on how much effort the DM wants to put into it. My guess is that 'easily ignored' is going to be the outcome in most cases, because its not like Wish/Miracle are easily accessible over the course of most of most campaigns.

Well, everyone in the group's making their own class, meaning I'll be the only Chronomancer in the group unless I end up playing my joke class. I've already told our DM that if I end up shifting to another timeline I'd just find a tavern and lay low until the party finds some way to bring me back. The party will most likely make me roll a new character and call it a "technical death by my own stupidity" if I vanish due to my own mechanic. If I'm going to be doing any side quests in that timeline, it's strictly up to the DM to throw them at me.

1-2) Aging/de-aging stuff

I'll look into this later. I actually came back to this part at the end of responding to this post and need to get going soon. But I can say right now that I'm thinking that making any permanent de-aging spells create paradox, even the smallest amount, would prevent the whole "rich-people-becoming-immortal" thing.
Keep in mind that paradox is essentially a measure of how much a chronomancer has toyed with reality. That practically makes it a clock counting down until that person has to start dealing with inevitables. Our DM will probably make any chronomancers besides myself, if any, extremely strict about the use of their magic for their own sake.

'Prevent Someone From Being Born' is basically 'save or die with no chance of resurrection'. There are equivalent effects that aren't quite as flashy, so its oddly not one of the worst offenders. I'd put it at like 3 paradox if all it does is erase the character. The real problem here is if it undoes everything that character has ever done, that is, does it also erase the characters offspring, resurrect anyone the character has ever killed, etc.? In that case, its like 9th level and 30 paradox and as a DM I'd seriously consider a ban on the spell not because of its power level, but simply because of the headache it would cause for me as a DM to reinvent the campaign each time it was cast.

I was thinking that paradox would be caused by the time stream not adjusting itself to accommodate for changes made to it; history retains that the person existed even though it's no longer true, and thus it generates paradox. That's why I suggested that the paradox for that spell in particular should be based on the target's age; the longer the person has been alive, the more impact his or her existence should have to the timeline.
This is also why I don't want a way of repairing paradox besides undoing the effects of one's own spells. Anything else would result in rewriting history which, besides being painful for the DM, could cause a massive backlash upon the chronomancer and give him much more paradox than he started with. It's dangerous business that spellcrafting chronomacers probably wouldn't even risk looking into.

4) If paradox is a resource, it's not a drawback. You have to be very careful with that.

If I make something that uses it, I'll probably make it hard enough to pull off and/or suicidal enough that it could only find practical use as a last-ditch effort. You know, like Death Throes

5) No.

Dang.

 

[wargear]

Your paradox mechanic is unfeasable. It would require far too much of the GM to be practical.

As for your spell list, well...spells are really just special effects, not the key portion of a Chronomancers arsenal. Ditch the idea of casting a spell and erasing someone from history, because it's much easier to travel back to when they were a 1 year old baby and stick a knife in them.

Chronomancy is about legwork, not flashy effects. Actually, it is both, but the effects are mostly for intimidating the hell out of rival mages.

I played a Chronomancer in a FR campaign a while back. My DM nearly had a migrane every session due to me jumping back and forth through time. As a time travelling mage, I had a handful of 'standard' responses to events in the campaign. If there was a powerful enemy mage, I would travel back in time...and be their mentor/teacher...likewise for as many good mages as I could identify/be arsed with. Sure it's a little grey, but I did start out the campaign as a Red Wizard . If we needed some powerful magic item, I'd either go back to the moment the previous recorded weilder lost it and take it from them, or I'd go back in time and spend the time making my own one. We need a dragon ally right now, no problem...go back in time and raise a dragon from it's egg, so that it is the right age when we need it. And any time your arse is truly on the line...have your future self come back and save you...just remember to actually come back and do the rescues at some future point in the game.

If nothing else, your character should spend it's spare time travelling back and forth witnessing and recording the events that shape the world. Just being there is enough to build a massive reputation. Actually lending your power/aid to the shaping of the realms makes you a major player, rather than just another lowly adventurer.


A couple of additional stunts I pulled that might give you some ideas:

• Using the timestream itself to store extra gear/items/artifacts, allowing myself to retrieve them again from any point in time...including before I actually placed the item into the timestream. (minor items okay, artifacts...not so okay)
• Depositing my extra spells into the timestream for retrieval at some other point in time. (nothing intimidates enemy magi like 30 fireballs in a row)
• Jittering my spellcasting, allowing me to cast and recast the same spell many times over in the same action round. Picture doing a Macross with magic missile spells.
• "Backing Up" myself in time, so that if I get killed, I simply respawn from the timestream and resume my life.
• Being the master of time means never being caught out by some young punk with a Timestop spell. We had it set up so that my Chronomancer would either get the choice to cancel time effects in his vicinity, or he could opt to join in on the timestop (or other time based effect) ...the number of times a mage shat himself after being tapped on the shoulder while Timestopped...
• Building a fortress in a space isolated from the very timestream itself, making it undetectable and unapproachable by anyone who is not a Chronomancer.

Just remember, small changes are okay. The timeline remains intact and events continue. Big changes will bring down the wrath of the Inevitables...not to mention the GM. It's all about finesse, there is a lot you can do, so long as you keep the same number of pieces on the chess board...swapping them around a little is okay, substituting them is okay, exchanging a pawn for a coffee mug...not so okay.

Almost forgot: If there are historical records of an all-powerful mage calling himself 'Chronomancer' or who refers to himself as 'The Master of Time'...make sure to go back in time and BE the historical figure mentioned in those records...the last thing you need is another chronomancer competing with you...

 

[Ugulu the Barbarian]

Not really a critique, but since every class needs cantrips, you could have one that makes clocks stop working ... If your game has clocks.

 

[the Jester]

Welcome aboard and good luck! This is a pretty ambitious project; I'd start with the old 2e Chronomancer supplement.

 

[Knightfall]

You might want to use this file (see attached PDF). Note that I didn't create these conversions, but I have tweaked them a bit.