Churches Instead of Gods

[CleverNickName]

I don't like the idea of "gods" in my game. Supreme beings who concern themselves with the affairs of humankind seem better-suited to theologians and science-fiction writers, not a fantasy game setting.

That said, I do not want to remove religion from my game...it is one of the more popular plot devices, especially when it comes to waging war. People need something to believe in, a cause worth dying for, that sort of thing...and the game needs a way to explain healing, turning undead, and divine magic.

So I came up with the following plan: replace gods with churches.

It is mostly cosmetics: each church has an alignment, a favored weapon, a list of domains, and a portfolio...the change to the game mechanics will be minimal. Clerics and druids belong to a church (or temple, or clan, or whatever), and serve as that particular order's ambassadors, clergy, and laymen.

Divine power does not come from a supreme being, but from a collection of church elders related to a particular faith. Like guild wizards, the elders sit in a faraway temple over a supernatural energy source (a portal, for example), and dole that energy out to their followers.

For example:

The Black Raven Cult
This secret society meets twice a month in the cornfields outside of Broomstown, on the nights of the new and full moons. Almost all of their members are halflings, who seek to drive the humans from their ancestral farmlands through fear, trickery, and mischief. They are known for the black, feathered robes and crow-like masks they wear during their meetings.
Alignment: N
Favored Weapon: the sickle
Domains: Animal, Earth, Plant, Trickery

The members of the Black Raven Cult draw their power from a group of six halfling elders, who secretly operate from inside the East Shire...one of these elders has opened a portal to the Plane of Shadow, and is channeling the energy from that plane to the cult's followers.

-----

What do you think?

 

[Wild Gazebo]

I've used this idea for years. I much prefer the 'human' feel of an organization...and it is sooo much easier to justify coruption in a good aligned church.

I've usually kept the source of power divine: just have the followers make different assumptions about where the power has come from. This leads to different religions powered by one god...or even the same religion (different sects) powered by multiple gods. This leads to interesting possibilites at much higher levels of play.

So, yeah, I think it is a great idea!

 

[Mercule]

There are numerous ways to have clerics gain their powers. In many ways, I rather like Eberron's shoulder shrug and non-intervention. IMC, I've used deities in the past, and even had a PC ascend. Plus, I'm not a fan of "power from faith alone".

Nor do I like the idea that even benevolent churches/deities might be intentionally duping their followers. It pretty much sucks if the only reasonable response to religion is atheism. I know that IRL there are many people who do find that to be true, but this is fantasy. Paladins don't die from disentary and there are some generally benevolent religions.

My solution is to call gods "immortals" and generally go to the BECMI route, including spheres, but with some hints that there is something even greater (that will never be revealed -- the players are allowed to mentally work things into their own belief system however they wish).

Your solution seems just peachy, IMO, with a couple of caveats. The first is that point, above, about good churches being dishonest. The second is that many players (myself included) feel that it's bad form for an NPC to be able to accomplish something when there is no chance of a PC doing something similar. If an NPC halfling can power a religion by tapping into Shadow, then a PC should be able to, also -- it can mean the PC retires and spends the rest of his life in a mystic coma, though.

 

[Quantarum]

In my home brew all immortals, including the gods, are bound by the chains of fate. Power comes with a price and like Doctor Manhattan in Watchmen they often find their actions dictated by cosmic order (or even worse, they are simply spectators). Only mortals like the PCs have real choice and complete freedom. Mortal servants are valuable to the divine powers because they can act as they please. This explains how corruption can leak into even the most good aligned church and the 'wrath of the gods' seems so swingy.

-Q.

 

[CleverNickName]

Your solution seems just peachy, IMO, with a couple of caveats. The first is that point, above, about good churches being dishonest. The second is that many players (myself included) feel that it's bad form for an NPC to be able to accomplish something when there is no chance of a PC doing something similar. If an NPC halfling can power a religion by tapping into Shadow, then a PC should be able to, also -- it can mean the PC retires and spends the rest of his life in a mystic coma, though.

Awesome idea...why shouldn't a character be able to start his own church? It hardly seems fair for wizards to be able to start their own guilds (four wizards were the founders of Hogwarts, right?), but deny clerics the same priveledge.

I'd probably keep this as an epic level thing, and retire the character when the task is achieved (as you suggested.) It should involve several quests, a powerful artifact or three, lots of followers, and a definite purpose.

You make a good point about how the only alternative to theology seems to be atheism. I think this is weak, too. Without steering the discussion into dangerous waters, what other alternatives would you suggest?

And for the record, one corrupt cleric does not mean the entire temple's agenda is corrupt. It would be entirely possible (and a great plot hook for a low-level cleric's introductory adventure) that the temple would be just as shocked as anyone else to discover that one of their more popular acolytes is a werewolf in sheep's clothing...

 

[Caliber]

Pretty nifty idea. I might even steal it one day, although I'd likely change the power source to vary from religion to religion (that is, maybe one religion's Clerics are powered by the collective belief of the flock, while another channels the power from a McGuffin, and maybe a third has some great being who provides their followers with the mojo.) In fact, figuring out how a given religion's power is actually sourced would probably be a great way to characterize and flavor their beliefs.

 

[Umbran]

Generally a fine idea. However, unless you plan to make it plot-relevant, you don't really need to specify the power source.

General world-building trick #5 - don't specify what you don't need to.

 

[ferratus]

The Silver Flame in Eberron is a lot like what you are describing here, so you might use that as an inspiration.

I took out the clerics in my 4e game to see if I could do without them, replacing them with cults of various ideas. One culture I based around oracle wizards, and the desire to cultivate the benevolence of fate and find a means to fortell the future in anything that forms a pattern. Another culture believed that there once was a supreme diety, but when Asmodeus slew him his spilled blood birthed humankind. The Incarnate is the kingpriest of this culture, posessing the slain god's wisdom and power to fullest extent. Another culture worshipped the raw power behind the incantations of magic, and believed all words had power. There are other religions, but these were my most interesting.

 

[Spatula]

Not that different from how Eberron treats religion, although they don't get specific about where divine power comes from. Gods are distant and unknowable, if they exist at all. What I like about this, aside from opening the door to corruption and abuse of power stories within a church, is that it also allows for different belief systems to live side by side, without one being more true than the other. Someone who doesn't worship the gods in FR, for example, is basically delusional.

 

[Gears]

I've long intended to do a game set in medieval Europe where all the 'gods' would be replaced with the cults of various saints. A monotheistic setting with competing religious traditions within it would be a refreshing change from the standard D&D garden variety polytheism....