D&D 5E (2024) Circle Casting is gonna break a lot of games

This seems cool, and I don't hate it at first blush as much as I do most 5.24 innovations. But magic is so deeply baked into the game, and there are so many spells it might effect in ways the designers almost certainly didn't anticipate that I worry about just slapping a new casting system on all spells. I certainly don't trust WotC to sufficiently playtest something like this. I don't really care about "breaking the game", my worry is more that this isn't really off-kilter and weird enough to let players break the game in joyful or exciting ways. Instead the places where circle casting is really advantageous enough to bother with are really going to be things for rule lawyers and power gamers to focus in on. This seems less like something people use to do some cool new magic feat and be evocative of fantasy ritual casting tropes, and more like something that one player uses over and over again to pull off an unbalanced combo they cooked up, and the other players get stuck participating to humor them.

Also, this edition is in year two and they've already introduced something that, to really do properly, would require rewriting a massive number of core materials (ie: to do this right they would have special circle cast options available for a lot of vanilla spells, not just a few exiciting new ones, and they would probably just make "circleable" a property of some spells, like ritual or concentration, and not of others). This just seems like a terrible lack of planning.

I do think group casting is a vital element of fantasy magic which has been missing from the game. I created a rough system of group casting for my own 5e clone system a couple years back. In mine the casting time was extended by hours or days, and the benefit was being able to cast spells of a level the lead character could not normally cast (my system only has 12 character levels so it normally only goes up to 6th level magic). I mainly intended it as a villain activily, but liked that it also opened up the opportunity for the players to do plot vital feats of magic (opening a portal, resurrecting a comrade) they otherwise couldn't yet do. I think my approach of spending days to cast a spell in its normal form, albeit a spell normally not accessible until a higher power level, had a lot less potential to mess things up and was more evocative of the group ritual casting tropes I assume WotC is also going for, but obviously I'm biased.
 

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Once you have your army of secondary casters, you can abuse all the above circle casting options to their extremes. Have a city you don't particularly like? Erase it with a massive expanded spell of your choosing. Make your concentration functionally impossible to break by distributing the burden among several dozen of your minions. You can even snipe some poor bastard from another continent if you wanted. Things get really silly with a lot of secondary casters. The only limit is the number of creatures you can fit within 30ft of you.
13 year old me would have loved that naughty word. World ending Dragon Ball Z overpowered anime wizard tomfoolery. Absolute cinema.

Maybe for ease of mobility the circle of magicians can put their magic circle on a cart? And maybe a turret to better direct the lightning bolts? Maybe form a shield around the cart to protect against other magic circle casters?

I like how it encourages you to get creative but yeah this requires a lot of GM negotiation and plot contrivances or this turns silly quick.
 

Oh, this isn't just a high level tactic. This is an every level tactic. Low level parties can be using this right away. How many low level creatures could survive a trip through a 50 foot radius Spike Growth? Or a Moon Beam, that's either 45 feet wide, or has a range of 1,000 feet or more? Yet those are only second level spells.
 

I'd need to see it in practice before I decide whether I like it or not. I'm seeing a lot of white room examples in this thread that seem very unlikely to apply to my games, and it is much easier to think of situations where circle casting could cerate a cool moment, or allow me to do some devious with a cabal of NPC casters, creating an interesting problem for the party. Mostly, it'll be used by me, not the players, as parties usually only have a few casters, and they always have different ideas about what to do.

Suggestions like taking out a dragon at 1000' via Tasha's Hideous Laughter just seem outlandish to me. Worst case scenario is it falls a bit before recovering, or even falls to the ground and takes a bit of damage but is really ticked off. Or wastes a spell slot. More likely the party comes up with a better plan. Even more likely is they don't have time and space to set up such a situation, anyway.

I don't want to cancel something cool because there are outlandish applications that are unlikely to ever occur. So unless it becomes a clear and present problem, I'm going to allow it. I mean, I'm allowing weapon mastery even though I kind of hate it, as a DM; this won't be worse than that.
 

Oh, this isn't just a high level tactic. This is an every level tactic. Low level parties can be using this right away. How many low level creatures could survive a trip through a 50 foot radius Spike Growth? Or a Moon Beam, that's either 45 feet wide, or has a range of 1,000 feet or more? Yet those are only second level spells.
I see your Moon Beam and I counter you with my 1000 range lightning bolt armored carriage

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Let's say your players take the gloves off and someone casts Firestorm.
This may or may not work, depending on how the multiple cubes aspect works (or doesn't) with the Expand option.
I cast Clairvoyance from a mile away. I hire the needed hirelings to fill in any gaps in my party, then proceed to Augment the spell Sacred Flame so that I can cast it a mile away.
This doesn't work because you cannot Circle Cast cantrips, such as Sacred Flame.

As for the list of spells under Augment, they all look legal.
 

But now it's much worse. Before you could see how armies or a battle could have been done. There are dozens of battles in Fearun that defined the lore and game world. Now? None of those battles should have happened like that. Some of them even had arch mages like Elminster involved. Reading the lore, it makes no sense for the battle to be the way it was if circle magic existed as written. This mechanic completely rewrites how a game world exists.
Then it didn't exist as written. There was time Gods did not need worship to sustain them, Ao implemented that at the end of time of troubles, before that they only used worship to empower themselves, but did not need it for sustenance. Even before that Mystra removed ability to cast spells above 9th level. Not the first time rules changed.

Also, the settings do not operate 100% on RAW, rules are serving to let us players pretend we're in the world, not making autenthic representation of it. The way of "world must operate exactly how rules describe it" mindset lie madness of Kender and Tippyverse.
 

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