D&D 3.x City of the Spider Queen/3.5 Haste

[Nifft]

everything is balanced around this fact.

(Emphasis emphatically mine.) I contest that the former is easy to fix -- if it was originally true at all, for your specific party -- and that the latter is easier to remedy than it is to deal with 3.0e's haste.

Picture a 3.0 adventure against fiends which revolves around the fact that they have powerful abilities but few hit points... if you use the 3.5 versions of them, the result may be very different

What you say is true, and it may have been the author's intent (as the authors may have intended Fiends to have few HP but high DR, so it's tough to kill them unless you're a Paladin or whatnot). However, the designers failed. In 3.0, they intended Fiends to be one way, and messed up. Fiends were way too easy to kill for their CR. Therefore, in 3.5e, the designers changed things to correct their failures. They changed Fiends -- and they changed haste.

Game designers are only human. They make mistakes, and they try to correct them. We should learn from their experience instead of enshrining the errors.

-- N

 

[Kalanyr]

And the next edition their new fixes might be treated as errors yes? I mean really, as you said game designers are only human.

If you think their decision was wrong change it for your campaign no one is going to stop you. List of all me.

 

[Plane Sailing]

Alright, so even the very first encounter of the module, the suggested tactics are, haste yourself, then cast two lightning bolts per round.

There are a lot of spellcasters in this module and I imagine many will be attempting to use this strategy.

What would be a comparable spell level for 3.5 for 3.0 haste?

What would be a good spell level for 3.0 haste without the AC bonus?

What would be a good spell level for a spell that only quicked one spell per round? (Thus allowing for the same 3.0 haste 2 spells per round, but not the occasional 3 spells from standard, extra partial, and free quickened.)

I figure I can have them research a spell like this and then keep their tactics if they are high enough level to cast it.

Or maybe anyone have any other suggestions for running City of the Spider Queen / Spiral of the Manzessine in 3.5?

Basically I think 3.0 haste would be an epic spell. As has already been said, at any spell level at which it becomes available it is *the* spell to cast, as it doubles a casters output.

If you want to allow it for the casters in the module, then give it back to the casters in your campaign. Seriously, if the module really was "balanced" around the idea of the arcane casters using 3.0 haste then ipso facto part of that balance *must* have been that PC casters are expected to use it also!

That is (by a long shot) the easiest solution for your problem. Add it to the PC wizards spellbooks and give sorcerers the option to swap out an existing 3rd level spell for it straight away.

Cheers

 

[Staffan]

You could use something like the 3.5 psionic power schism. It's 4th level, and lets you use a second power per round, but you're considered to be 6 levels lower. This would (a) lower your effective caster level by 6, and (b) remove access to your three highest-level spells. So, a 15th level caster with an arcane version of schism activated would be able to cast a 15d6 horrid wilting and a 9d6 cone of cold in the same round.

Most psions would have to spend a feat to get schism (it's normally a telepath-only power), but that's part of the general balance of psionics so I wouldn't bother overmuch with that for an arcane version.

 

[the Jester]

This is the closest thing to 3.0 Haste imc. It's good, but not automatically a no-brainer like 3.0 Haste was. And really, that was the issue with it- it was always the first spell you cast, no matter what level you were, and if you didn't have it and the other side did, you were as good as dead.

MARIUS’ DOUBLE ACTIONS
Transmutation (Time)
Level: Sor/Wiz 7
Components: V, S, M
Casting Time: 1 action
Range: Personal
Target: You
Duration: 1d4 rounds

This spell allows you to take two rounds worth of actions on your turn, including two standard actions and two move-equivalent actions. If you do not otherwise move during your turn you may make two five-foot-steps, but if you do the second one is subject to attacks of opportunity. This spell does not allow you to cast additional quickened spells in the round.

Material Component: A bit of sand from the plane of Time.

 

[Kyamsil]

If I had to allow that tactic to work I would go with a spell like this:

Firall's Quickening Boost
Level: All spellcasting classes 2
Components: V,S,M
Casting Time: 1 swift action
Range: Personal
Target: You
Duration: Instantaneous

This spell makes the next spell you cast that is of at least 2 levels lower count as quickened. You must cast that quickened spell in the same round that you cast Firall's Quickening Boost or the next round. You must use your standard action to cast another spell in the same round or the Quickening Boost spell fails.

Material: A drop of quicksilver.

Special: Every spellcaster that learns this spell can cast it spontaneously (without preparing it ahead of time) in the same way that a cleric casts spontaneous cure or inflict spells. Also, every spellcaster can apply the Heighten Spell metamagic feat to it even if they don't have that metamagic feat.

That means that a wizard launching 2 lightning bolts in the same round must remove a 5th level spell to be able to do that without quickening one of the lightning bolts.

To compare it with the usual Quicken Spell metamagic feat, assuming that you want to quicken a spell of the same level as the one that you cast on your standard action you spend:

----Quickening Boost spell/ Quicken Spell metamagic feat
1st: 1+1+3=5 spell levels/1+5=6 spell levels
2nd: 2+2+4=8 spell levels/2+6=8 spell levels
3rd: 3+3+5=11 spell levels/3+7=10 spell levels
4th: 4+4+6=14 spell levels/4+8=12 spell levels
5th: 5+5+7= 17 spell levels/5+9=14 spell levels
6th: 6+6+8= 20 spell levels
7th: 7+7+9= 23 spell levels

Alternatively you could always cast a lower level spell using this spell. For example, spending a 3rd spell slot to cast a quickened 1st level spell of your choice each round.

The abuse of this spell would deplete you of spells really fast. Also, making a wand or other item to have lots of this spell isn't a good choice, because of the item activation times.

 

[Paragon]

the problem fixes itself when you take into account pc's/npc's can no longer cast haste. they were planning for this when they wrote it. at worst it will take some teeth off the meat grinder that is the TPK spiderqueen adventure.