D&D 3E/3.5 City of the Spider Queen/3.5 Haste

[Jeremy]

Crossposted from House Rules for other rules ideas

Alright, so even the very first encounter of the module, the suggested tactics are, haste yourself, then cast two lightning bolts per round.

There are a lot of spellcasters in this module and I imagine many will be attempting to use this strategy.

What would be a comparable spell level for 3.5 for 3.0 haste?

What would be a good spell level for 3.0 haste without the AC bonus?

What would be a good spell level for a spell that only quicked one spell per round? (Thus allowing for the same 3.0 haste 2 spells per round, but not the occasional 3 spells from standard, extra partial, and free quickened.)
I figure I can have them research a spell like this and then keep their tactics if they are high enough level to cast it.

Or maybe anyone have any other suggestions for running City of the Spider Queen / Spiral of the Manzessine in 3.5?

 

[Iku Rex]

What would be a good spell level for 3.0 haste without the AC bonus?

9

And it will still be a must-have spell.

 

[Gizzard]

What would be a good spell level for 3.0 haste without the AC bonus?

Well, headed in a slightly different direction: 3E Haste let you essentially Quicken every spell; and Quicken "uses up a spell slot four levels higher" so that gives you a rough estimate of how high 3E Haste should have been. Iku Rex's guess of "9th" starts to sound pretty reasonable if you follow this logic.

If you want to tinker with City of the Spider Queen though, you could start handing out Metamagic Quicken Rods to foes. To throw two Lightning Bolts you only need a Lesser Rod, which is still a pricey 35,000 G. Your party will collect them like candy on Halloween, and pretty soon they'll start switching Rods to get around the 3xDay limits; then you'll be back where we were in 3E with spellcasters throwing way too many spells under Haste.

(You could always make the Quicken Rods all intelligent and have them spitefully refuse to work in the presence of another Metamagic Rod. ;-)

 

[Jeremy]

Duneth's Perfected Astral Juxtaposition
Conjuration
Level: Sor/Wiz 8
Components: V, S, F
Casting Time: 1 round
Range: Personal
Target: You
Duration: 1 round/two-levels

The caster of this spell transposes the Astral Plane around himself, making him subject to the plane's planar traits without leaving the plane he is on. This spell can only be cast on planes that are coterminous with the Astral Plane. Any pre-existing planar traits of the plane the caster is on are unaffected. This spell has no effect if cast while on the Astral Plane.

Unlike previous incarnations of this spell, Duneth's Perfected Astral Juxtaposition grants a +6 competence bonus to Wisdom checks to control the Astral Plane's subjective directional gravity.

A dimensional anchor, dimensional lock or similar effect counters this spell and the spell cannot be cast if the caster is under such an effect.

Focus: A full-body suit of Astral Thread mesh worth no less than 5,000 gp, which you must be wearing when casting the spell and for its duration.

 

[Jeremy]

What about something like this?

 

[dcollins]

Alright, so even the very first encounter of the module, the suggested tactics are, haste yourself, then cast two lightning bolts per round.

There are a lot of spellcasters in this module and I imagine many will be attempting to use this strategy...

Or maybe anyone have any other suggestions for running City of the Spider Queen / Spiral of the Manzessine in 3.5?

Here's my analysis. Haste in 3.0 was broken. Haste never allowed double spells in 1st Edition, or 2nd Edition, for a good reason, and it doesn't in 3.5 or presumably any edition ever again. It's one of the very few spell fixes I agree with in 3.5 -- an experimental change in 3.0 that was quite predictably a bad idea.

The fact that all the casters in COTSQ use haste first thing is precisely the disease that needed curing. Don't let it linger, cut it out.

My recommendation for a conversion: let them use slow instead. Maybe it's a cultural custom for drow in COTSQ to throw slow at opponents first thing -- dampens the whole party's attacks, makes them get half as much done while the caster gets off the normal number of spells. However, saves and targetting issues make it far more balanced than 3.0 haste's auto-have-to-be-nuts-not-to-use-it for spellcasters.

 

[Someone]

You can start with XPH´s Schism. 4th level, lets you manifest another power as if you were 6 levels lower. But Schism could be broken too...

 

[Endur]

I changed spell lists and tactics for most major spell casters in the module.

First, the author uses wimpy and strange spell choices (in a culture full of poison users, not a single drow in the book has a cure poison spell or potion).

Second, many of the spells have changed in 3.5 significantly. Haste, Forbiddance, even Summon and Planar Ally spells are slightly different. Mordenkainen's Secure Sanctum is a must have 3.5 spell for the bad guys.

For Monsters, I kept them the same, even if CRs changed (i.e. some of the Demons are more powerful under 3.5 than 3.0). Although I did change classes/PRCs when I thought there was a more effective 3.5 class (Ranger, etc.).

Or maybe anyone have any other suggestions for running City of the Spider Queen / Spiral of the Manzessine in 3.5?

 

[Jeremy]

I'd be very interested in hearing of some of the changes you made Endur. My party started out at 4 10th level PC's, and may end up next week having two more 9th level PC's in the mix. They have just gotten rocked by the roper in the crypts but with all the books they have available to them and the inevitable power creep, they trash just about everything they can bring their attacks and spells to bear on.

We're talking frenzied berserkers, mystic theurge's with practiced spellcaster, improved two weapon fighting/double hit fighters, shadovar necromancers, spell focused sorcerers.

Tactics and circumstances change everything, but nobody likes to always get ambushed and this group often deviates from the well trodden path. The whole point of running a module for me is to cut down on the prep work, but it seems I may have gone into this one without all the necessary tools now.

 

[mikebr99]

I'd be very interested in hearing of some of the changes you made Endur. My party started out at 4 10th level PC's, and may end up next week having two more 9th level PC's in the mix. They have just gotten rocked by the roper in the crypts but with all the books they have available to them and the inevitable power creep, they trash just about everything they can bring their attacks and spells to bear on.

We're talking frenzied berserkers, mystic theurge's with practiced spellcaster, improved two weapon fighting/double hit fighters, shadovar necromancers, spell focused sorcerers.

Tactics and circumstances change everything, but nobody likes to always get ambushed and this group often deviates from the well trodden path. The whole point of running a module for me is to cut down on the prep work, but it seems I may have gone into this one without all the necessary tools now.

Hey Jeremy.
I am also DMing this one right now... My party is a little ahead of you actually, just entering Szith Morcane. Min/Maxer's all...

You are right about the rampant use of haste by every arcane caster... I had debated, creating a Drow only Ring of Improved Haste, which simply changed 3.5 hastes cast by the wearer into 3.0 versions... but finally decided against it.

Instead I tweaked (read: added) the character levels and sometimes the numbers of the opponents. I went with the monsters as their 3.5 versions, sometimes also increasing their numbers.

Mike