Clarified class defense bonus

[Sravoff]

In response to the question about adding BAB to WP in this thread:
I felt that being more combat oriented, these classes would have toughened bodies much faster due to their continual training in combat.

Origenal question by genshou:
I've come up with rules for using vitality/wounds in a Dungeons & Dragons rules set. Your formatting could have been a bit better for your ideas, but I'm particularly intrigued by the fact that you add BaB to WP. I personally prefer to keep WP at the same 'fixed' number (equal to the character's current Con score), so players who really want to have more WP will be easily tempted by feats such as Toughness.

-Sravoff

 

[Sravoff]

Armor as DS and DR?

Perhaps armor should help make it harder to hit you. You could split the AC bonus between Defense score and damage reduction. Like so:
padded, normal AC of +1. Gives 1 DR and 1 DS
Scale, normal AC of +4. Gives 2 DR and 2 DS.
Breastplate, normal AC +5. Gives 3 DR and 2 DS.

This seesm a little fairer as the DR doesn't get out of hand and the defense score still has a bit of effect.

Magical armor would go under deflection mod. as a boost to defense score.

how does all that sound?

Thanks

-Sravoff

 

[genshou]

Perhaps armor should help make it harder to hit you. You could split the AC bonus between Defense score and damage reduction. Like so:
padded, normal AC of +1. Gives 1 DR and 1 DS
Scale, normal AC of +4. Gives 2 DR and 2 DS.
Breastplate, normal AC +5. Gives 3 DR and 2 DS.

This seesm a little fairer as the DR doesn't get out of hand and the defense score still has a bit of effect.

Magical armor would go under deflection mod. as a boost to defense score.

how does all that sound?

Thanks

-Sravoff

I've seen the bonus split that way before, but I usually only prefer that option with archaic armour in d20 Modern games. It does overcome the problem of dealing sufficient nonlethal damage to overcome armour DR and reach the "massive damage threshold" necessary to knock the foe out.

Yes, it can be easier to deal nonlethal damage to an armored opponent much of the time (by biting, clawing, choking, etc.), but since the average unarmed strike can't deal more than 3 nonlethal damage without a critical hit, a character in field plate is still invulnerable to the weaker nonlethal attacks if the armour DR is halved. And that's as it should be (can you imagine some crazy non-monk trying to cold-[rooster] a fully armored knight?).

/me fumes in anger due to the fact that cold- is censored now that is used to refer to certain organs best left unmentioned in polite company.

 

[genshou]

In response to the question about adding BAB to WP in this thread:
I felt that being more combat oriented, these classes would have toughened bodies much faster due to their continual training in combat.



-Sravoff

It's a good idea. If I ever run another D&D game that uses VP/WP, I'll consider adding a rule I was inspired to make based on that idea (but based on hit die type).

But it's not appropriate for all games, since it weakens the lethality of wound damage. And some of us rat bastard DMs don't want that

 

[Sravoff]

BaB was the easiest thing that I could think of, since the many HD types make it hard to have a different progression for each HD.

-Sravoff

 

[genshou]

BaB was the easiest thing that I could think of, since the many HD types make it hard to have a different progression for each HD.

-Sravoff

d4, d6: +1 WP/HD
d8, d10: +2 WP/HD
d12: +3 WP/HD
This leads to a very large number of WP on a 20th-level Barbarian. Hmm... :\

A 20th-level Barbarian with a Con of 24 (when not raging) would have 84 WP and 275 VP. I made the numbers above with this kind of change in mind, but now that I look at how the numbers play out, I can see that it doesn't work very well at all. I do like the heavily increased WP, but I need to somehow balance it with the current system. Ideas?

 

[Sravoff]

Hmm... I figured you were one of the "rat-bastard" dm's that wanted wp to stay lethal?

Perhaps you misunderstood my BAB method? I meant that WP would increase slowly, a fighter would get +1 wp every level, and a wizard would get an increase every 2 levels. In essence, whenever the base attack bonus goes up, so does WP.

My apologies if the above paragraph was un-needed.

Perhaps keep the mechanic of BAB the same but change the HD?

d4, d6: +1 1/2 level
d8, d10: +1 3/4 levels
d12:+1 per level

Thsi would also help in the amount of damage a given class "should" take. ie, barbarians are there, they fight and get hit. Monks, rangers, fighters, paladins, are there, but not quite as much. Sorcerers and wizards stay as far away as possible. Rogues usually dart in and out with sneak attacks. Bards just sing.<-No offense to bards.

Also perhaps give barbarians a DR vs. non-lethal damage while raging?

-Sravoff

 

[Sravoff]

double post

 

[genshou]

Hmm... I figured you were one of the "rat-bastard" dm's that wanted wp to stay lethal?

Perhaps you misunderstood my BAB method? I meant that WP would increase slowly, a fighter would get +1 wp every level, and a wizard would get an increase every 2 levels. In essence, whenever the base attack bonus goes up, so does WP.

My apologies if the above paragraph was un-needed.

Perhaps keep the mechanic of BAB the same but change the HD?

d4, d6: +1 1/2 level
d8, d10: +1 3/4 levels
d12:+1 per level

Thsi would also help in the amount of damage a given class "should" take. ie, barbarians are there, they fight and get hit. Monks, rangers, fighters, paladins, are there, but not quite as much. Sorcerers and wizards stay as far away as possible. Rogues usually dart in and out with sneak attacks. Bards just sing.<-No offense to bards.

Also perhaps give barbarians a DR vs. non-lethal damage while raging?

-Sravoff

Sorry if I confused. I was presenting the idea you inspired via your BaB method, but noticing that–compared with your smaller numbers–my favoured idea was giving out a prodigious amount of protection. That amount of WP is fine for the overall D&D VP/WP rules system I have, but I need to alter something elsewhere in exchange for that enourmous WP increase. If you were to use HD-based WP increase in your system, I'd suggest exactly as you set it up in the quoted text.

As for Barbarian DR, I've always ruled that it applies to both vitality and wound damage, and stacks with armour DR. It's never caused problems IMCs.

 

[Sravoff]

Ah.. Okay that makes sense.

-Sravoff