Class Combos

[Wippit Guud]

Looking at Dragon 289 (needed the Kaiju template), and they have these nice Class Combo ideas, where by using standard classes, you can come up with what could almost be stand-alone core classes in of themselve (eq Martial Artist using 10 levels of Monk and 10 levels of Fighter, with level progressioun on when to take what class, and what's gained.)

Has anyone developed other class combos like this? For compains which restrict prestige classes, having this kind of info that can be presented to players would be an asset.

(Mind you, if they do this every Dragon, just ignore me, I'll have to get a subscription).

 

[Kae'Yoss]

I don't know if they do it every dragon, but they did it before (some priests were described that way).

 

[Crothian]

They did it a lot in many of the earlier d20 Dragons

 

[Surefoot]

The dragon annual (not the last one, but the next-to-last one if you know what i mean) did it for about 6 or 7 class combo's. It's the dragon with the Herald in it.

It was the coolest bit in the dragon.

 

[krunchyfrogg]

These class combos prove that you don't even need PrC's. You can just develop your character through multiclassing.

They did some for dwarves in the dwarf issue.

 

[Spatula]

There are still cases where a prestige class might be desireable (you can't make anything like the arcane archer with the base classes, frex), but yeah it does suggest that the more "mundane" PrCs are unnecessary.

I recall Dragon also had class combos in the psionics issue, and there was an issue that used the concept to recreate some Forgotten Realms 2E specialty priests, which I thought was a cool idea.

 

[Li Shenron]

These class combos prove that you don't even need PrC's. You can just develop your character through multiclassing.

I am an estimator of Prestige Classes which in fact give really new abilities or opportunities to a character. Every PrCl that could be more or less replicated with a multi(core)class combo has no reason to exist and is an example of poor design.

 

[Darklone]

And I think that no PrClasses are needed but we need more feats, feat chains and core classes for extensive abuse of multiclassing!

 

[DreamChaser]

And I think that no PrClasses are needed but we need more feats, feat chains and core classes for extensive abuse of multiclassing!

This would work wonderfully for fighters but what about those characters for whom feats are a rarer commodity?

Are PrCs overused and often mismade? yes.

Does that mean the whole idea should be scrapped? I don't think so.

Steps to designing a PrC (for me):

STEP 1:
Can this class be replicated or approximated with a combination of existing classes? If yes, then no PrC. If no, then go to 2 (this is true for core classes IMO too)

STEP 2:
Can a couple (1, 2, maybe 3) new feats that fit within the range of existing feats (not scaling, for example) be created that will give the desired abilities? If yes, then no PrC. If no, then go to 3.

STEP 3:
Does this PrC serve a purpose other than uber-munchkin player ego gaga? Does it improve the build upon the campaign/story/character concept? If yes, then go to 4. If no, well, you know.

STEP 4:
How broad is the PrC? Does it need 10 levels? 8 levels? 6 levels? 4 levels? It drives me up the wall to see blanks in the level progression of a PrC unless it is delay for a really powerful ability (which is probably too powerful anyway). If you end up with loads of blanks, then make the PrC have fewer levels. (Yes I know, PrCs of less than 10 levels can't go epic. so what).

I've never had any problems with PrCs done this way (although of couple of "core" ones have giving me grief). It doesnt need to be thrown out or nerfed, the PrC idea just needs to be managed right or it becomes an insane monster, absorbing the entire campaign world and destroying any semblence of internal consistancy.

JMHO, YMMV
-DC

 

[melkoriii]

I have always thought that ppl should use Multi-Classing to make there PrCl and some Core Classes.

Ranger = Fighter/Durid or Fighter/Cleric with Plant and Animal Domains.

Paladin = Fighter/Cleric

There needs to be a way to make multi-classing more ballenced with flat 1-20 characters. You can really hurt yourself with multi-classing to get your character concept.