Class Compendium: The Warlord (Marshal)

[Aegeri]

Considering the link between the Feywild and arcane magic, a 7th (and perhaps 8th) wizard build would seem inevitable. Most likely, you'll see several builds for HotFL & HotFK classes, and maybe a new class. The only support for pre-E will likely be 'pass through' - "a wizard can take Feymancer powers, so the PH1 has been supported."

God, you want me to hate this book already and it's not even out yet.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

Transmuter should fit in somewhere? Why not in the feywild book...

 

[Aegeri]

Transmuter should fit in somewhere? Why not in the feywild book...

Do we really need more wizards?

REALLY?

I just don't see the point of more Wizards at this point. Not when the Artificer/Seeker/Runepriest have, I dunno, nothing. I would sooner see support for those classes than yet another wizard build.

 

[Nemesis Destiny]

Do we really need more wizards?

REALLY?

I just don't see the point of more Wizards at this point. Not when the Artificer/Seeker/Runepriest have, I dunno, nothing. I would sooner see support for those classes than yet another wizard build.

Agreed. I would sooner see them do cool things with the unsupported classes, even if it is only making the Swordmage into an Abjurer and the Artificer into a Transmuter.

 

[Aegeri]

For the record the options available to Wizards in 4E are:

Tome
Staff
Wand
Orb
Nethermancer
Necromancer
Evoker
Pyromancer
Illusionist
Enchantment

They don't need more options. It's time to leave the Wizard alone. It really is. If you can't find something awesome to play out of that, you would never be satisfied with anything.

 

[Nemesis Destiny]

I would be satisfied when I can recreate all the characters that I could under previous (specifically 2nd) editions. I don't care what the base class is called - only that it does the kinds of things that I expect or need it to in order to replicate those old options.

I can do divination with Rituals (works better that way anyway), but I'm still missing Transmuter (for which Artificer would work beautifully), and Abjurer (which screams Implement-only Swordmage build). Conjurer can already be done easily with existing options.

 

[Incenjucar]

But Aegeri what about the abjurer and the rod wizard and the aeromancer and the wild mage and the aquamancer and the geomancer and the charmers and the carnomancer and the botanomancer and universal specialist and the diviner and the divinomancer and invoker and the conjurer and the alterer and the sun mage and the wood mage and the dark mage and the elemental mage and the primal wizard and the astralcaster.

How else can we explore new concepts if we don't give them to the wizards?

 

[MerricB]

Are Wizards (magic-users) the new Elf?

Cheers!

 

[Tony Vargas]

Please tell me, which class exactly was butchered?

it is the same old compains over and over again and you get the same answer: no one forces you to use essential classes. The old fighter is still valid and still gets support, despite what some people claim.

The Fighter got 'butchered,' specifically, it cut into 3 sub-classes - Slayer, Knight, and Weaponmaster - that have starkly limitted options to share future material. While the Wizard, for instance, was cleft in twain between Mage and whatever-they're-going-to-call-the-old-Wizard, they can still take all of eachother's powers. The pieces of the Fighter class can only take utilities. So, if a new Fighter build is introduced, it has to be either Weaponmaster-compatible, or Slayer/Knight-compatible, and will support the compatible one much more than the non-compatible.

While the Fighter already has plenty of toys, the best toys are often placed among the newest (power creep). Also, the Wizard is just as much a heavily supported, PH1 class as the Fighter, yet it is recieving 6 fully-compatible new builds, vs the Fighter's 2 largely incompatible ones.

So while that same answer comes again and again, it dosn't stand up to scruitiny.

[MENTION=996]Tony Vargas[/MENTION]
And yes, the fighter mark punishment should become a opportunity action power. But you should consider IF it should get the wis bonus to hit or not. for ease of use I would allow it.

To the knight... i still find it mind boggling, that shifting near a knight is worse than just moving away...

Making Combat Challenge an Interrupt instead of an OA is probably one of the more confusing things about the Fighter - you constantly see more causal/less experienced players try to apply Combat Superiority to it (and get frustrated/dissapointed when they can't - since you rarely ever /get/ Combat Superiority). So, yeah, making it an OA, and aply CS would be both simpler, and an upgrade commensurate to the power creep other classes are getting from Essentials.

The Knight's thing is just different. Monsters shift away from fighters, they run away from knights. :shrug: Neither makes much sense. I think the spirit of Combat Challenge/Superiority and the Knight's Aura would be to simply make any voluntary movement /away/ provoke, and be 'punished' a little worse than a regular OA. Either with the Fighter's bonus and movement stop, or the Knight's damage on a miss.

Though, y'know, I'm saying that like the Knight ever had a right to exist... :sigh:

 

[Droogie128]

Please tell me, which class exactly was butchered? I don´t get it... And please show me your PHB with torn out and blackened pages...

it is the same old compains over and over again and you get the same answer: no one forces you to use essential classes. The old fighter is still valid and still gets support, despite what some people claim.


[MENTION=996]Tony Vargas[/MENTION]
And yes, the fighter mark punishment should become a opportunity action power. But you should consider IF it should get the wis bonus to hit or not. for ease of use I would allow it.

To the knight... i still find it mind boggling, that shifting near a knight is worse than just moving away...

I'm just saying that they took a giant step backwards with the martial class design in essentials. I'm glad to see the warlord didn't get that treatment. I saw it as a return to "Wizards rule, and fighters drool". Martial classes get no real tactical options. They're basically boiled down to charge builds using one main trick every round, and alternating to a few others situationally. Spamming an MBA, with no encounter powers (besides one... ever... that = "I do more damage").

Sorry, but I just thought that they took highly versatile classes and sucked the life out of them. Again, they're one-trick ponies.

Plus, add in the fact that they're mostly incompatible with their parent classes, and you can color me unimpressed.

The Mage doesn't suffer from this, as it's fully backwards compatible with the Wizard. The Essentials martial classes got reduced to a shell of their former selves. I would rather have seen them gain tactical options, not lose them. Encounter and daily stances, maybe. Or the ability to combo attacks based on encounter powers. Anything, but the return of "I swing my sword".