Class concepts that you just can't work out neatly in DnD

[Cedric]

It seems that a number of people won't find my opinion to be of use, because I house rule things I don't care for...often.

One of the things I don't care for is the cross-class skill system. Very few of the skills in my game are considered cross-class skills.

If you want to be a barbarian who is also a great poet, then by all means, you can spend your skill points in Perform to be a great warrior poet.

I don't consider skills to be a fundamental function of your class. Just because you are a sorcerer, doesn't mean that you are somehow incapable of learning the "Heal" skill as well as a Ranger could.

Now, there are exceptions in my games...spellcraft is a cross-class skill in my games for anyone who is does not have one level in a primary spellcasting class.

If I want to play the warrior who flunked out of the mage academy because he couldn't grasp the nuances of actually casting spells, BUT became fascinated about the study of magic and cranked up his Knowledge Arcana...then what's wrong with that?

As to breaking down class abilities into point costs and having a point buy system for them. I'm ok with that. If every player wanted to do that, I'd just run a different game. But if one person really wants to build something unique, I'll take a look at what they put together.

Once I get a look at what they put together, if I think they are just trying to min-max something, then I squash it. But if I think they are trying to put together a concept character with a strong background, then I'm all for it.

Cedric

 

[Crothian]

There's no mistake. A player gets to PLAY the character of his choice.
Whether you think it's a worthless choice is a matter of (faulty) personal opinion.

The group decides what an individual plays? How incredibly ridiculous!

Not really. If the rest of the group doesn't want to play a whatever, they can just stop allowing you to play. They are not totally with out recourse.

 

[Reynard]

Really, I think the existing classes cover a LOT of ground. I'm not sure Rumormonger is a strong core concept, and if I were taking on a red dragon, I think I would be slightly peeved at a player who didn't even have some kind of buffing ability.

It isn't even that Rumormonger isn't a strong concept -- it is that it isn't a strong concept for a fantasy adventure game. D&D is not a generic fantasy game. It never has been and never will be. That people don't understand this after thirty-odd years astounds me. D&D is a lot of things, and it has some range to it, but when it comes down to it, it is a fantasy adventure game. Complaining that it doesn't have good rules for courtly intrigue or seafaring mercantilism is just absurd. It is like complaining that Vampire doesn't have rules for playing leprechauns.

Of course, the awesome thing is that for the last 6 years or so, other companies have had a way to produce products that fit those little niches and other fantasy genres D&D is not designed to cover.

But I bet there still isn't a "rumomonger" class anywhere in any of them.

 

[Tonguez]

I can't build a non-magical 'Alchemist' who is able to brew up vials of acid, smoking candles or flash grenades using the core rules so my Alchemist character is usally done using a Scorcerer as a base - except that really defeats the whole 'Non-magical angle of the concept

Thats why I'm with MoogleEmpMog with wanting a Kitset system where they (WoTC in this case) actually give me the formula used for class creation whilst also giving me a set of core classes

 

[Reynard]

I can't build a non-magical 'Alchemist' who is able to brew up vials of acid, smoking candles or flash grenades using the core rules

Expert. It is in the DMG. Ask your DM if you can have a free feat every 4 levels or so to make it a PC-worthy class. Ta-da.

 

[Crothian]

It isn't even that Rumormonger isn't a strong concept -- it is that it isn't a strong concept for a fantasy adventure game. D&D is not a generic fantasy game. It never has been and never will be. That people don't understand this after thirty-odd years astounds me. D&D is a lot of things, and it has some range to it, but when it comes down to it, it is a fantasy adventure game. Complaining that it doesn't have good rules for courtly intrigue or seafaring mercantilism is just absurd.

Are you saying that I can't combine fantasy adventure with seafaring mercantilism or courtly intrigue? Your definition of D&D is a lot more limited then my own.

 

[heirodule]

I've never understood the attitude of 'not only do I want classes, I actively DON'T want a system for designing new ones that mesh with the ones I already have incorporated into the PHB or even the DMG.'

I'll tell ya why. its why I didn't like the skills and powers approach. It meant that a large segment of the D&D playing poluation will probably LIKE the new system, go for it in a big way, etc, and the holdouts will feel like they don't have a rules-based leg to stand on to prefer the classed way of play.

Its a religious argument. Don't rock the boat so much you split the players.

 

[heirodule]

Expert. It is in the DMG. Ask your DM if you can have a free feat every 4 levels or so to make it a PC-worthy class. Ta-da.

Won't do. They made Craft Alchemy require the ability to cast spells.

 

[Reynard]

Are you saying that I can't combine fantasy adventure with seafaring mercantilism or courtly intrigue? Your definition of D&D is a lot more limited then my own.

I am almost surprised that the very first response was a complete misrepresentation of what I said. Almost.

Let me try this again. :clears throat: Fantasy adventure game. If said adventure happens in a court, or on a merchant vessel, yay for you. But it is still a fantasy adventure, what with the daring do and the danger and the swings swords and spells going off left and right. Thus -- as should have been obvious from my previous post, and probably was but more fun to ignore anyway -- PC archetypes and concepts need to have some way to engage in said adventure.

 

[Crothian]

Don't rock the boat so much you split the players.

What makes you think there is not a plit among D&D players already?